bluebird,so in your info, do you feel problem is we are shooting the older doe and thats why we dont have many fawns.

what is youropinion on this and try to be real simple for me, i have hard time understanding this info,just make it SIMPLE,to point listing WHY.


THANKS

i am on the fence

The simple answer is yes, we shot too many adult doe. But in 2G the answer is even more straight forward, they simply shot too many deer,period.

Maybe this will be a little easier to understand. With a deer density of 8-10 in 2G , the over wintering deer PSM ,the sustainable harvest is less than 3 DPSM. That means the PGC expects those deer to only produce 3 fawns that live to the fall hunting season. So ,if you owned 320 acres of woods you should expect to see only 1 or 2 fawns/year. then when you have so few doe producing fawns the effects of predation by yotes and bears is much greater that if there were a lot of does producing fawns.

good answer bb i agree we as hunters as a whole shot to many deer and there is 2 answers
1 hunter greed to shoot as many as possable
2 pgc issued to many tags to allow the first one

I agree. Just remember it is not only greed but ignorance. if you live in a city and hunt in 2F or 2G a lot of hunters have no idea how many deer are left in the woods they hunt. they rely on the PGC to tell them what to do.

true bb

I strongly agree with the statement bluebird made about the impact on fewer fawns from predators.
spot on

i was standing at my truck and heard a young lad say to his crew,
I WAS IN SPROULs WOODS AND I SAW HERDS OF DEER.

i looked at him and his glasses were on bottom of his nose and he was taking up flower growing in collegefrom the city of harrisburg.

the gang he was with was taking in every word, they could not wait to kill all those HERDS of deer in that 1 mile of woods..
well, they did not even see a deer

this hunter did not know ANYTHING about what was left in that mile of woods,HERDS MY A.

I have always credited you with being of above average intelligence and then using that intelligence in a misguided direction due to a misguided agenda. From your lack of understanding of the percentages in that annual report I am now reconsidering my previous thinking at least as it relates to you level of mathematical capability.

Surely you are not so simple as to not understand how the change in the number of fawns in annual antler less harvest also changes the percentage for all of those ages and the sex class of juvenile male and juvenile female. Any unbiased and logically thinking person would also realize that the number of juvenile deer in any annual harvest will be very dependant on the number of fawn in existence. Surely even the village idiot could figure out that during the years when the majority of the fawns died right after being born there would be fewer fawn in the fall harvest. I sort of figure that anyone of even average intelligence would also figure out that during those years when there were fewer fawns available to be harvested the adult does harvested would make a higher percentage of the total harvest. Come on man you aren’t that dense, or are you?

And, I am not trying to shoot anything down that has any bases of fact in it. I am simply trying to help people see the difference between what is real and what is just speculation or myth coming from people with a misguided agenda.



I suspect I do have the data, that is part of the reason I know how wrong you are. The other part is just common sense.

If you want the data call Harrisburg and ask them for it. Maybe the Attorney for the Uninformed Silly People can get it for you. I’m not obligated to sharing data with anyone trying to use it in a law suit against the Agency on their misguided mission.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Of course I understand that and that is why I pointed it out to you, because it is obvious you don't understand it and that you are overly influenced by your personal observations in 2G.. The fact remains the number of over wintering doe determine the number of fawns in the herd ,but the ratio of fawns to adult females is relatively constant unless there is a significant decrease in breeding rates, which results in fewer fawns which changes the ratio of adults to fawns. So what happened , when the breeding rates began to decrease in 2005? The percentage of fawns in the harvest increased ,even though they represented a smaller percentage of the antlerless herd, and the harvest of adult doe decreased because there were fewer adult doe available to be harvested.

I provided all the data that is needed to show how the harvest of adult doe decreased much more than the antlerless allocations ,which means there are a lot fewer adult doe available to be bred and produce fawns. That ,inturn, accounts for the decrease in breeding rates and productivity.