RE: More Spin From RSB
 

Doug says:
"Did we need less deer in Pa?Absolutley" In areas. Wegot it everywhere however. Undefendable blanket slaughter.

"Did some areas get reduced too much?Most likely"

Absolutely. Nearly everywhere in fact.

"but that's easily corrected. "

VERY easily. But isnt being, and isnt gonna be anytime soon, and most likely not at allthanks to pgcs new allies whom they are catering to.

"Did we have a breeding ecology problem?Not in my opinion. "

Agreed. So we both agree pgc lied on that one.

"Are the bucks getting bigger?I have no doubt that a guy has a better chance at killing a noce buck than he did 10 years ago."

Disagree 100%. The recent scoring sessions did not show it. Norhasmost observations. The AVERAGE size ofbucks and percentage of bigger bucks in the herd most definately increased. Thanks to extreme herd reduction, overall numbers of big bucks definately did not. And when speaking of odds improving, they havent.

"Is the regeneration looking better?Absolutely.It's actually amazing in many places."

Perhaps in some of what were the absoluteworst areas. Here there is absolutely no difference.Habitat in2A never was poor in the first place, and many other areas of the state as well,and there was nothing to correct other than to take very cautious preventative measures.--Its not happening here though. The ow herd was reduced by 50+% in this wmu, then Despite claims of stabilization for a few years now, the doe allocations and harvest goalshave been and arehigher than those that were used to actually reduce the herd previously.[:'(]

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

I think they do it, Doug, just because a lot of them are stuck in the past and want the "good old days" back. They just can't cope with the fact that things have changed, and turn mean and sour towards those they feel are responsible for it.
I really feel most of them know there is much better hunting usually a short drive from their old haunts, but are just too stubborn and pig-headed to do it. They will just never get it.

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

But not in 2G ,at least according to the experts and 20 years of research. WMU 2G was at it's goal deer density in 2000 and reducing the herd below the goal did not improve breeding rates and recruitment.
No it is not, as long as theissue enough doe tgas to keep the herd stable or reduce it even more.
There is no evidence that the bucks are getting bigger as you claim. ARs may have actually decreased the rack size of our average 2,5+ buck.
The experts at DCNR and the PGC disagree with that claim.

If those hunters concentrated on the few areas where there is a decent population , they would reduce the herd in those areas to 5 or 6 DPSM and the hunting next year would be worse than ever. Obviously you can't comprehend hunters are already harvesting all the deer the herd can produce on a sustainable basis ,but I am not surprised since you have been brainwashed by RSB and your DCNR friends.

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

"I think they do it, Doug, just because a lot of them are stuck in the past and want the "good old days" back. They just can't cope with the fact that things have changed, and turn mean and sour towards those they feel are responsible for it."

Or maybe they just dont think the entire state needed unwarranted blanket across the board reduction in some areas for no reason at all?

Maybe they do not like the fact our hunter numbers are declining over twice the national average thanks to this unsound deer program?

Perhaps they find all the lies and conflicting data hard to swallow?

Naaa. We are all just "sour". All 80 to 90% of our hunting population who know the pgc deer plan is a fatally flawed joke!(LOL);)

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

Maybe that description also applies to you, since you apparently can't comprehend that if those hunters moved to a new area and harvested more deer the herd would be reduced even more and there would be fewer buck and doe to be harvested the following year.

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

Gee bluebird, I guess that just makes too much sense. :D apparently everyone should get a deer by going to the areas where there is a never-ending supply, only to end the supply and then worry about it the following year!

God forbid we do something radical like ask for more responsible management across more of the state instead?:D

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

That is why PGC supporters are such a special breed. What they believe doesn't have to make sense and as you pointed out they seem to believe there is an unlimited supply of deer to be harvested, if hunters would move more and hunt harder. Apparently they believe if hunters had harvested 13,200 antlerless in 2007 instead of 6,600 it would have no effect on this years harvests. That level of denial of the truth is equivalent to the cult mentality of many fringe religious groups.

Here is why RSB is the front runner for the exalted position of the village idiot.
Apparently RSB thinks the herd should increase recruitment to compensate for the antlerless allocations, even though the fawns that are born after the antlerless allocations were set, were conceived the previous fall. Obviously RSB doesn't have a clue about how our herd is managed and he is doing a grave disservice to the PGC by posting his nonsense.

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

Well, if you want to quit deer hunting to satisfy your beliefs, please feel free to do so. In the meantime, the rest of us who can still manage to harvest a deer without wailing and decrying the end of the sport will be happy to give you some more statistics you can bend and twist for your own behalf.
I'm off to 2G this weekend.....Wanna bet some venison comes home with me??

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

And the fact that you can harvest a deer in 2g is supposed to be some kind of proof that the plan s working. for your information in 2007 11,700 harvested a deer in 2G and that tells us absolutely nothing about whether the plan is working or if it is a total failure. Until you stop basing your assessment of the plan on your personal success you will continue to be an uninformed , misguided , ignorant supporter of the PGC failed policies.

RE: More Spin From RSB
 

"without wailing and decrying the end of the sport"

I didnt see anyone wailing, just stating facts. I also didnt see anyone make that claim about ending our sport. Although now that you mention it, one thing that supports that theory is the PGC license sales figures since this plan has been in effect.:D Rate of decline over double the national average.;)