You contradicted your self: The "excess" harvest did work (you can't prove it didn't). They killed off the deer for a few years, the browse bounced back (you can't prove it didn't). The deer population responded accordingly. Besides, one of two years doesn't prove anything.

Yeah, you can exceed capacity, but do you want a bunch of 60-80 pound deer running around? How about an outbreak of blue tongue, that ought to help things along. Thats it, a deer under every tree, then you can brag about the 50 or 60 deer you see every time you go hunting, even though you can't harvest one. No wait , there goes that one 12" wide 8 point amoungst the herd of 24 does, bang....gottum!!!! Now what???

Dude, what is your "official" background??? I am a scientist, and a good friend does reseach on ruminants, and knows more than a little about what is nutritious for them. The people who know more than anyone are the ones who manage their own land. They try to keep ratio 3:1 does to bucks. Lower is even better, but the old does catch on quick and are 10 times smarter than a dumb 2.5-3.5 buck.

Cuernos1 - R.S. Bodenhorn, thanks for the reply, you guys obviously hunt, have seen the habit changes, and understand what is happening. Other people watch too much OLN, or haven't lived long enough to watch the deer population increase 10 fold in many areas since the 70s. Now its beginning to balance out some due to lack of agriculture in many areas. But they want it the "way it was" in the 90s when there were actually too many deer in many areas.

Cnyguy, I have lived long enough and hunted long enouh,but please show me these areas where the deer population has increased ten fold.I'd really like to know where this has happened othen than urban area like 2B where they are virtually unhuntable.Please show me these areas so that I may be able to see this with my own eyes.

I dont necessarily think that the deer population has increased tenfold anywhere (although 2B would seem to be close)

I would sat that the populations are noticeably larger now than in the 70's in 2D based on personal experience and in 2A and 2C based on observations from hunters old enough to have been here through those years and whose judgement I can trust.


Cnyguy

Bluebirds won't tell you his official background. A look back through the archives will show that he's told usthat he doesnt need any background or training to know how our deer herd should be managed.

He also feels qualified to dismiss the findings of experts like Dr James Kroll, Dr Dave Samuel, Charles Alsheimer, Dr Rosenberry and of course Dr Alt. He claims they are all misinformed, inept or biased.

I agree the excessive harvests reduced the herd and I can also prove that the browse did not "bounce back and that the populations didn't respond accordingly. The DCNR 2006 Browse Impact Study showed only 24% of the plots surveyed had successful regeneration. The PGC studies still show regeneration in 2 F and 2G as rated as poor despite over 10 years of reduced herd and the population in 2G is now lower than it has been in over 50 years.
I deal with facts while you deal with theories and opinions that you can't support with facts. The fact is our adult breeding B/D ratio was 1:2.1 before ARs were implemented and now it is a little better than 1:2. But breeding rates and recruitment still declined because as Dr. Rosenberry said there were always enough buck to breed the does in a reason time period.

Bottom line is that Bluebirds expertise is self declared. His "facts" generally have roots in realtruth but are intentionally taken as snippets out of context or presented without the necessary background. It's an old tactic most often used by politicians. It would'nt surprise me if thats his true background.

Wrong again!!! I never claimed to be an expert or to have an expertise in deer management.
All I am doing is using PGC data and reports to show What has happened as a result of HR and ARs. The data and reports are not taken out of context and are available for all to see on the PGC web site.

Any time you think you are up to it , please feel free to post an example where I posted manipulated data like RSB uses to mislead and deceive on a routine basis.

Did we need less deer in Pa?Absolutley
Did some areas get reduced too much?Most likely but that's easily corrected.
Did we have a breeding ecology problem?Not in my opinion.
Are the bucks getting bigger?I have no doubt that a guy has a better chance at killing a noce buck than he did 10 years ago.
Is the regeneration looking better?Absolutely.It's actually amazing in many places.

We needed less deer and that's exactly what we got.I live in the WMU with the lowest deer densities in the state and I consistantly find and harvest multiple deer each year on public land.I spent all of last weekend and about 4 hours yesterday morning checking out different areas of Moshannon state forest that had an average dd of 10 dpsm.I saw lots of deer each day and tons of sign.Ididn't find it everywhere though.There were vast areas without any tracks at all.Ironically,Those areas will be loaded with hunters on monday because you can see far.Those same hunters will be cursing the PGC for ruining their hunting.Find the areas with preferred food and cover and you'll find plenty of deer.A novel concept but one that works consistantly for me.

I can't find one word in your post I would change or anything to add.

Congrats DougE. You have said it all while using just a few well chosen words.

I point out examples of your distortions daily. The archives are chock full of examples. You then toss out more smoke and mirrors. You seem to thrive on it. I'm packing for deer camp and I'm declining to play your little ongoing game today.

I have a buddy from Phillyon another message board that has a camp up here.He despises the PGC and DCNR for what he feels they did to Pa's hunting.His camp is right smack dab in the area's worst habitat.This guy is a good hunter and really puts alot of time in during hunting season but constantly complains about "No Deer".Interestingly,I had to meet my ferrier at 11:00am to have him pull the shoes on one of my horses.This guy has a camp just a few miles away from my buddy.He killed a 130" buck this year with a bow and another dmap doe with a muzzleloader.I asked him if he's been seeing many deer and he claimed,that he's seeing alot on public land.Around here,the food sources change weekely and you have to know ehere to look at different times of the year.You can't continue to hunt the same areas of poor habitat and expect to be successful.I boggles my mind when I hear about guys hunting for a week and seeing no deer and few tracks.Why would you hunt an area that you knew had no deer?