More Spin From RSB
12-09-2008 | 03:26 PM
#131
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
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RE: More Spin From RSB
Running out of time there BB to get a buck, you better get out there on the veranda.
You generalize a lot when attempting to make your points, but I will allow your generalization and counter with another. Most multi-season hunters (bow/gun/flintlock) are indeed happy with AR. Most exclusively rifle/shotgun season hunters are unhappy with AR. I will let your inquisitive mind draw the conclusion why that is. It is silly to keep bringing up that point restrictions are the worst way to age a buck population. Increasing the age structure of bucks is good and the only way to accomplish that in PA is through countable point restrictions. You and I both know that judging the body shape would never work in the woods, as well as antler spread will never work. I have lots of bucks that come past me and never turn to show what their spread is.
Stop beating your dead horse moot of a point.
You generalize a lot when attempting to make your points, but I will allow your generalization and counter with another. Most multi-season hunters (bow/gun/flintlock) are indeed happy with AR. Most exclusively rifle/shotgun season hunters are unhappy with AR. I will let your inquisitive mind draw the conclusion why that is. It is silly to keep bringing up that point restrictions are the worst way to age a buck population. Increasing the age structure of bucks is good and the only way to accomplish that in PA is through countable point restrictions. You and I both know that judging the body shape would never work in the woods, as well as antler spread will never work. I have lots of bucks that come past me and never turn to show what their spread is.
Stop beating your dead horse moot of a point.
12-09-2008 | 03:39 PM
#132
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
ORIGINAL: Windwalker7
Food for thought here.
Has anyone here heard the term "managment buck"?
It probably originated in Texas. We've all seen those big racks on those hunting shows.
It seems that here in PA, we do everything bass akwards.
In Texas, they shoot the inferior bucks and let the bucks with potential grow.
Here in PA, we shoot the nicer bucks and let the smaller ones grow.
If you had two yearling bucks, one carrying 8 points and one a spike, guess which one is legal in PA.
We kill the buck with better genes and allow the spike to continue on.
Now, I have to admit that there are nicer bucks in PA because they get to get older, but down the road, you have to wonder how things will be.
I'm not sure if the ranch owners in Texas would like the idea of shooting off all the huge racked bucks and letting small bucks walk.
Just imagine what it would be like if the PGC decided to change the rules. If they said that for the next 3 years, the only legal buck in Pa would be spikes and fork horns.Anything bigger is off limits.
What do you think PA's buck situation would be like after 3 years of this?
Food for thought here.
Has anyone here heard the term "managment buck"?
It probably originated in Texas. We've all seen those big racks on those hunting shows.
It seems that here in PA, we do everything bass akwards.
In Texas, they shoot the inferior bucks and let the bucks with potential grow.
Here in PA, we shoot the nicer bucks and let the smaller ones grow.
If you had two yearling bucks, one carrying 8 points and one a spike, guess which one is legal in PA.
We kill the buck with better genes and allow the spike to continue on.
Now, I have to admit that there are nicer bucks in PA because they get to get older, but down the road, you have to wonder how things will be.
I'm not sure if the ranch owners in Texas would like the idea of shooting off all the huge racked bucks and letting small bucks walk.
Just imagine what it would be like if the PGC decided to change the rules. If they said that for the next 3 years, the only legal buck in Pa would be spikes and fork horns.Anything bigger is off limits.
What do you think PA's buck situation would be like after 3 years of this?
Another is that the difference between a spike yearling and an 8-point yearling is birthdate and to a lesser degree nutrition, not genetics.
Comparing Texas' high fence, high dollar hunting to PA's wild herd is not fair to the argument.
If you changed the rules and made it only spikes and forkies then you would end up with no bucks older than 1.5, just like the old days. All a hunter would need do is wack excess points off with a hammer to make it legal.
12-09-2008 | 03:52 PM
#133
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: More Spin From RSB
Remember, most experts agree that ARs are the worse method for improving the buck age structure , but Alt and the PGC didn't care. they needed a carrot to get hunters to shoot more doe ,they implemented ARs anyway,despite the known negative effects.
Dr Kroll
Dr Samuel
Dr Rosenberry
Dr Alt
Charles Alsheimer
Virtually every officer, biologist and member of QDMA
Then there's this little Gem
I actually despise sitting on stand for endless hours without seeing anything.
I actually prefer pursuing the game I harvest rather than ambushing them from 20 Ft. up in a climbing stand, which at times i consider to be more like poaching then hunting.
12-09-2008 | 03:53 PM
#134
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
Most multi-season hunters (bow/gun/flintlock) are indeed happy with AR. Most exclusively rifle/shotgun season hunters are unhappy with AR.
It is silly to keep bringing up that point restrictions are the worst way to age a buck population. Increasing the age structure of bucks is good and the only way to accomplish that in PA is through countable point restrictions.
Why is increasing the buck age structure good when it wastes thousands of buck every year?
If you changed the rules and made it only spikes and forkies then you would end up with no bucks older than 1.5, just like the old days. All a hunter would need do is wack excess points off with a hammer to make it legal.
12-09-2008 | 04:18 PM
#135
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
Now thats what I call funny and shows you know even less than I thought you did. Did you ever try to break of a point? Do you know what a freshly broken point looks like? Are you one of those guys that would shoot a big 8 pt. just so he could break off the points with a hammer? I know I would never thought of such a brilliant plan.
You, on the otherhand, obviously have tried it and know all about it.
So tell us how many bucks have you shotin Antlerless season and then smashed the horns off of? Is this something you do as common habit or only on rare occasion? So tell us your point smashing anecdotes, would ya?
12-09-2008 | 04:26 PM
#136
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
Once again livbucks is speaking out for all the hunters out there.Please sir,refrain from making the statement once again that "most multi-season hunters are indeed happy with AR and most exclusively rifle/shotgun hunters are happy with AR unless you have proof positve that that is the case.It is possible that you and your buddies are, but please do not speak for entire hunting population because I and many of my hunting companions and other hunters I know have a diffent opinion of such programs.
12-09-2008 | 04:29 PM
#137
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
Thanks for another display of your irrational thought process. One doesn't break off points if one is attempting to make an illegally harvested buck into an antlerless deer. You have to break off the antlers and leave less than 3" of antler which is something I have never done. However, I have harvested buck where the antlers fell of while dragging and I have also found dead buck that you couldn't kick off the antlers no matter how hard you tried.
12-09-2008 | 04:31 PM
#138
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
ORIGINAL: fellas2
Once again livbucks is speaking out for all the hunters out there.Please sir,refrain from making the statement once again that "most multi-season hunters are indeed happy with AR and most exclusively rifle/shotgun hunters are happy with AR unless you have proof positve that that is the case.It is possible that you and your buddies are, but please do not speak for entire hunting population because I and many of my hunting companions and other hunters I know have a diffent opinion of such programs.
Once again livbucks is speaking out for all the hunters out there.Please sir,refrain from making the statement once again that "most multi-season hunters are indeed happy with AR and most exclusively rifle/shotgun hunters are happy with AR unless you have proof positve that that is the case.It is possible that you and your buddies are, but please do not speak for entire hunting population because I and many of my hunting companions and other hunters I know have a diffent opinion of such programs.
12-09-2008 | 04:31 PM
#139
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,623
Likes: 0
From:
RE: More Spin From RSB
Actually ther would be plenty of 1 1/2 year old bucks. Because all the 5, 6, 7, 8 points would get to live.
several years ago, 90% of bucks killed were 1 1/2 years old, and how many of those had 5 or more points?
Its odd the everyone says that genetics doesn't play a very big role on rack size. yes, nutrition and age are very important.
Ever know anyone that raises deer to sell to preserves. I do.
They only breed the bucks that have large racks or nontypical racks. Why is that?
Genes seem to be very important when breeding any animal. Horses, dogs birds ,etc...
Race horses are bred to pass on their genes. So are show dogs.
How much were they selling sperm for when that huge buck, Goliath, was alive?
One breeder I know paid big $$$ for frozen sperm from monster bucks to fertilize his does.
He sells the offspring to preserves after they get a couple years old.
While his deer get nutrition and age, I'm sure he wouldn't waste his money for frozen sperm if it wasn't that important.
several years ago, 90% of bucks killed were 1 1/2 years old, and how many of those had 5 or more points?
Its odd the everyone says that genetics doesn't play a very big role on rack size. yes, nutrition and age are very important.
Ever know anyone that raises deer to sell to preserves. I do.
They only breed the bucks that have large racks or nontypical racks. Why is that?
Genes seem to be very important when breeding any animal. Horses, dogs birds ,etc...
Race horses are bred to pass on their genes. So are show dogs.
How much were they selling sperm for when that huge buck, Goliath, was alive?
One breeder I know paid big $$$ for frozen sperm from monster bucks to fertilize his does.
He sells the offspring to preserves after they get a couple years old.
While his deer get nutrition and age, I'm sure he wouldn't waste his money for frozen sperm if it wasn't that important.
12-09-2008 | 04:36 PM
#140
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
Likes: 0
RE: More Spin From RSB
I have also found dead buck that you couldn't kick off the antlers no matter how hard you tried.