The information concerning the decline in road hunters comes from my observations and discussing the topic with the other officers that spend every day out there looking for, checking and talking with hunters.

I would say it is you that is most likely out of touch with the general hunting population. I am very confident that I talk to far more hunters then you do. In fact I would suspect I probably talk to more hunters in just one month then you will talk to in during an entire year. I check hunters ever day, I attend sportsmen meetings routinely, I was set up with one of the stations at the public open house for the hunters to discuss the deer program, I get invited to speak on the subject of deer in many different locations where large groups of hunters and the public attend.

I can assure that the vast majority of the people, including the hunters are supportive of the present deer management plan. They wish they were seeing more deer, but most of them understand why they aren’t and also support the objective of keeping the deer herd in balance with the habitat and food supply.

Just because a few people refuse to accept the management facts the deer themselves provide or because a few hunters refuse to become better educated about deer management or the deer/habitat relationships certainly doesn’t mean I am the one that is out in the dark here.
I know who is lost in the dark and it sure isn’t me.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Your explanation of why road hunting has declined in recent years don’t make sense when you look at it realistically.

We had far more road hunters when deer were easier to find and nearly anyone could find one to shoot from the road. I’d have to say that some hunters have dropped out now because they were never hunters to begin with and were only out there to kill a deer as quickly and easily as possible. Many of them did just that from the roads and ended up giving hunters a black eye and bad image in the process. I am glad to see the road hunters declining and even gone from the hunter’s ranks. We didn’t and don’t need them; they did far more harm to hunting then the any benefits realized from the small amount of money their license sales provided.

Anyone that dropped out of hunting due to not being able to kill a deer was into hunting for the wrong reasons in the first places, so I am confident we will be just fine and maybe even better off without them.

Private property being posted to hunting doesn’t even enter into the road hunting equation in this area of the state since this area is almost all public land with it being almost hard to find a posted area.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Here are some stats from the PGC Annual Job Report for 2007. Note 63 % rated the deer management as fair to poor and only 34% said it was good to excellent.

Rsb, Thats a looootta twisting there pal! (LOL)

Probably the only person alive that would try and twist losing hunters at over twice the national average as a "good thing".

Also, the ecoextremist agenda is running the show at Elmerton. Thats a fact. It also needs to stop. If it takes usp's lawsuit, constant contacts to legislators, writing them and phone calls, etc. Whatever, then thats what should be done. It make be a bit overly dramatic, but considering our current state of affairs, losing hunters at over double the national average, and our wildlife management agency driving their financial situation straight into the ground, Id say it fits.

I really like the saying and it fits here perfectly, The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

If hunters and others do nothing, and accept the unacceptable (completely irresponsible deer management dictated by eco-extremists)then they only have themselves to blame....Reminds me, I havent contacted the fine fellows on the Senate and House for awhile. Think I'll do just that.

I didn't advocate a DD of 240 dpsm. I simply stated that he would be happier than the hunters in 2G with 12 PSDPSM. Furthermore, you have no idea how many deer the habitat can handle because you believe the PGC propaganda.

"Here are some stats from the PGC Annual Job Report for 2007. Note 63 % rated the deer management as fair to poor and only 34% said it was good to excellent."

And just who did they ask?? Im guessing their usual yes-men organization they go to when seeking apat on the back! (LOL) About as far from "main stream" opinion as one can get, and they STILL didnt get a favorable response! (LOL)Like to see them ask the huntersfor real. He he he. I think they KNOW what would happen and wouldnt even waste their time.

Most people including me would like to have a bigger deer herd, at least when I am hunting for them.
But, people simply have to accept the fact that deer are a living organism and as such have to fit into the first and most basic laws of nature.

The first and most basic law of nature is that, “No living organism can exist in populations higher then it’s food supply for more then short term periods of ideal conditions.” That is nature’s rule not the Game Commission’s, deer manager’s or forester manager’s rule. Nature simply will not allow more deer then the habitat can support, for the long term. Since deer eat their habitat it is simply impossible to keep more deer for long term periods.

Planting food plots and crops is great and the best possible way to increase deer populations within an area. In some cases you can even sustain higher deer numbers over a pretty large area by creating habitat that provides food. In some area though it isn’t enough just to plant and create habitat unless it is all in the right places too.

Here in the northern tier mountainous regions of the state it simply doesn’t matter how much great habitat is on the ridges and plateaus because we get years when the snows get to deep on the high ground the deer can’t live their in the winter. When that happens the deer ALL get forced to the valleys and wintering grounds. If their isn’t enough habitat and food in those wintering grounds to sustain those deer in a healthy conditions all winter, sometime for three months or more, then some of those deer will most likely die. When the deer are forced into the wintering grounds even the deer that didn’t die have much lower fawn recruitment rates the next year. If you lose your fawn crop for a year that hurts future deer numbers even more then having some winter mortality. The bottom line is that it simply doesn’t matte how food there is on the ridges or plateaus during those years of deep snows because it is just as inaccessible to the deer as if it were on the moon.

As for you feeder and artificial feeding program you are making a big mistake. You are not benefiting the long term future and health of the deer. The professionals have a saying, “Fed wildlife is dead wildlife” and that is pretty much correct too. You will increase their numbers for a while but eventually you end up with more then the surrounding habitat can sustain and the then either they leave, end up with a disease that brings the population back down to an acceptable level or predators, including the human kind, move in and reduce their populations. Feeding programs are never a good thing for the wildlife and only benefit the people watching them or trying to kill them, and even then frequently for only relatively short time periods.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Call me crazy RSB, but isn't the whole purpose of going deer hunting to try to kill one??? If not,they call it walking in the woods with a gun which in reality is good exercise but that's about it. Going hunting day after day and year after year without getting one is plenty of reason to give it up.I don't care what you do but if you consistently try it without sucess,almost anyone will become discouraged and quit.As far as road hunting and posted property not being connected,i'll still disagree with road hunters being able to cover far more area in a vehicle in a day than anyone can cover on foot.And if you know of "all this area is almost all public land with it being almost hard to find a posted area " ,please pm me with directions and i'sd gratefully give it a shot cause I sure can't find any.

That is simply a ridiculous position to take and shows that you are so biased that you won't acknowledge that the habitat on the ridges and plateaus is very important , because it supports the deer in good condition before they might be forced to the valleys . Besides , deer are not managed based on the extremes in winter weather conditions . they are managed based on the average carrying capacity of the habitat during an average winter.

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I don’t believe we are losing all that many hunters. We lost some cheaters and some that were only interested in the easy killing, but not hunters.
Most of those that were only interested in the killing are still doing it, they don’t need a license to kill them with a spotlight though, just luck enough not to get caught at it.

If you think the hunter numbers dropped in recent years just wait until next year and point of sale doesn’t allow the people that have been getting multiple license, for the extra antler less applications, get shut down to only one license. We might find out that we are closer to the number of licenses being sold in other states that already have point of sale where hunters can’t cheat so easily.

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Also, the ecoextremist agenda is running the show at Elmerton. Thats a fact. It also needs to stop. If it takes usp's lawsuit, constant contacts to legislators, writing them and phone calls, etc. Whatever, then thats what should be done. It make be a bit overly dramatic, but considering our current state of affairs, losing hunters at over double the national average, and our wildlife management agency driving their financial situation straight into the ground, Id say it fits.

You’re full of bologna; the extremists are in your camp not the Game Commission. The Game Commission is mandated though to manage all wildlife and for all citizens of the Commonwealth, not just a few hunters that want more then nature can reasonably and realistically provide.

The people that have driven the financial situation into the ground are also the ones in your camp in cooperation with the State Legislature who have failed to fulfill their obligation of keeping a state agency financially solvent.

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I really like the saying and it fits here perfectly, The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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Hey, that is a quote I use all the time.

If does fit and is exactly why I have spent over thirty years protecting our resources. It is also the reason I come to places like this and butt heads with nitwits so others with enough functional brain cells can learn to allow professional resource management.

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If hunters and others do nothing, and accept the unacceptable (completely irresponsible deer management dictated by eco-extremists) then they only have themselves to blame....Reminds me, I havent contacted the fine fellows on the Senate and House for awhile. Think I'll do just that.

There you go; when you want to see what is destroying the best possible future for the resources and the hunters just look in the mirror, you will then see your own worst enemy.

[color=#000000]R.S. Bodenhorn