You really are a laugh riot since you just contradicted yourself in a single sentence and that is quite an accomplishment. But just for laughs let's assume the nonsense you post is true. You just admitted that due to ARs in Miss. inferior bucks would be doing most of the breeding and based on your theory the same thing would happen a year later in PA when the inferior 2.5 bucks that were saved by ARs as 1.5 buck, become the dominant breeding bucks.

That is exacly what I have been saying all along ,so are you finally agreeing or are you going to recant what you said?

Wait , there it is RSB, I here the deer telling us it's too crowded around here ,we need to kill more of them ! What's that deer,you say,the information you're giving us about you're reproduction is true ! Message,what message ??? I must have missed that one,was it a phone call or e-mail message that you sent us or did you just send it to RSB so that he can continue to babble on the nonsense the PGC has brainwashed him with.

I didn’t contradict myself at all. It is just that you either aren’t very knowledgeable on the subject you want to debate, you are just talking nonsense or you are seriously deficient in reading comprehension. I could only guess at which it is.

Once again in Mississippi they killed their better bucks before they had a change to breed even one time, thus many of their bucks never got to pass on their genes and those were in fact the bucks with the better antlers. In Pennsylvania we don’t kill any of our bucks until they have had the change to breed and pass on their genes. In Pennsylvania most bucks, both the best and worst, breed and pass on their genes several times before the season even starts, thus there is little to no chance of high grading.

If you aren’t capable of understanding the significance of that difference and how it can result in high grading in Mississippi but not in Pennsylvania then I guess you just aren’t intelligent enough to understand even the elementary level topics of genetics or the possibility of high grading.

R.S. Bodenhorn

The significant improvement would be having habitat and food that will support more deer then the low numbers that can be sustained in the depleted habitat that has made up so much of the traditional deer range.

As for law suits and the stories about how hunters are dropping out of the sport I suspect that is just a bunch of hype that is only half true to start with. Other then the law suit and that is being brought forward by a bunch of nincompoops that have never been anything but a bunch of rebels and radicals that have continuously refused to learn anything about deer or the way nature really works.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Go to these sites and try educating yourself a bit before you make an even bigger fool of your self.


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=521&q=175332


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=465&Q=175353&PM=1


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&q=174310


R.S. Bodenhorn

Not hard to understand why you'd list those link's,could it be because they're PGC link's,the people who are trying to get people to believe in their hooey.So we're supposed to believe all these studies,facts,and figures that you try to throw at us but something that is actually able to track in real numbers like license sales is as you call it "hype".Once again,you show no sense of reality.

So now you are backtracking and claiming that high grading changed the genetics of the herd in less than 5 years, even though you said before that was not the case. You are also saying that 6 and 8pt. 1.5 buck are genetically superior to spikes and Ys. So you agree that we are harvesting our genetically superior 1.5 buck and leaving the inferior bucks to become the dominant breeding 2.5 buck.

Boy, I sure am glad we finally agree on something.

"As for law suits and the stories about how hunters are dropping out of the sport I suspect that is just a bunch of hype that is only half true to start with."

According to US FISH AND WILDLIFE the decline nationwide in hunter numbers from 2001 to 2006 was 4%. According to our fine PaGame commissions license sales numbers in that same period, our decline was 10%. Nuff said.

"Other then the law suit and that is being brought forward by a bunch of nincompoops that have never been anything but a bunch of rebels and radicals that have continuously refused to learn anything about deer or the way nature really works."

Seems to me, if you count everyone unhappy with pgcs irresponsible management, the huge majority, I dont think the mainstream could be considered rebels, radicals or anything else. As for thelawsuit, all I see is one sportsmens organization being proactive and doingone of the only things they can to counter the eco-extremist initiated and run antideer agenda.Seeing as there is no reasonable set of checks and balances to keep pgc "straight" and prevent selfserving irresponsible practices, I guess I dont have a problem with the lawsuit. Right or wrong, beats doing absolutely nothing but shutting out eyes and taking the lumps upon ourselves and the resource itself for very little reason other than petty self serving ones, catering to their eco-weiner interests and their timber connections which are quite strong among some of our current commissioners. I would strongly recommend others who see the gross misconduct on pgcs part to contact our legislators and let them know this. This is the effective and only course of action which IS meaningful. The legislators represent the people. Pgc represents themselves and whatever interests the sitting board of commissioners has at a particular moment in time. At some points in history, this was hunters and hunting. Currently it is timber and eco-fools/extremists.

BRAVO !!!!

I’m not backtracking at all.

I have repeatedly pointed outthat no one, including the researchers in Mississippi, know what caused the antler development decline in their study. Could it have been from genetic high grading? Perhaps it could have been since they had an antler restriction that allowed for the harvesting of many of their bucks before those bucks ever got to cast their genetics into the herd even one time. But, the fact remains that no one knows one way or the other and can only speculate at the cause.

But even if it had been from high grading in Mississippi, that still has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to deer management in Pennsylvania because we don’t harvest our bucks before the breeding occurs.

Quote:

You are also saying that 6 and 8pt. 1.5 buck are genetically superior to spikes and Ys. So you agree that we are harvesting our genetically superior 1.5 buck and leaving the inferior bucks to become the dominant breeding 2.5 buck.

No, I am not saying that at all and for you to even suggest such nonsense once again proves beyond a doubt that you either have a very serious reading comprehension deficiency or you are just an evil and misguided person with an evil misguided agenda.

I have said from day one that there is absolutely nothing that indicates a 1 ½ year old eight point is genetically superior to a short antlered spike. It is impossible to determine which of the 1 ½ year old bucks have superior genetics until they reach about three or even four years of age. All one can do before that age is guess at which is genetically superior or inferior.

Therefore, there is not one single spread of evidence or even an indication that we are harvesting the genetically superior bucks at a younger age in Pennsylvania. In fact, with antler restrictions protecting approximately half of the 1 ½ year old bucks now itbecomes more likely that if any genetic change is occurring it is on the positive side instead of negative side. After all Pennsylvania always had an antler restriction that protected the smallest spikes and saved them until the next year. All the present antler restrictions did was make sure we kept some of the better antlered 1 ½ year old bucks then we ever did before when all we kept were the smallest spikes.

R.S. Bodenhorn