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RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Here is where you disagreed with Asheimer, because he said the recommened doe harvest /1000acres was 45 doe ,which equate to 29 Doe PSM

Quote:

Does anyone in his right mind beleive that ANYONE would promote a deer density so high that it could sustain a HARVEST of 29 doe per square mile? A sustained doe harvest that large would require a pre season density of 90-100 DPSM when adult bucks, buck fawns, and non hunting mortality are also considered. He expects us to buy that fairy tale?

Now here is what Asheimer said;

Quote:

The proper number of deer per square mile of deer habitat will vary by region. In our farm rich area of New York State , biologists would like to see no more than 35-40 deer per square mile. Unfortunately these numbers haven’t been seen for more than two decades.

In our QDM program we typically harvest between 8 and 12 does per season on our 200 acres. This is a bit more than the normal recommended harvest of 45 does per 1,000 acres, but we harvest a few more than some might think we need to because some of our surrounding neighbors do not believe in killing does.

The doe harvest on Alsheimer land would equal 32 doe PSM.

Quote:

And yes, you've called them all liars and of course you've claimed to understand better than them what's right for PA

All that together makes what I said before valid. You think or at least you pretend that you know more than they do.

The only one I called a liar is Alt , because he knew he wasn't telling the truth about the B/D ratio or the effects of ARs. I didn't call Asheimer and Kroll ,liars . I simply disagreed with them You seem to think anyone that disagrees with you is a liar ,so I can understand your confusion.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Read slowly and try to grasp the concept. First Alsheimer talked about general guidelines and then he got specific about one property. Apples and oranges.

I don't disagree with Alseimer altough I do question the 45/1000 acres part of it. It looks like a typo or it needs moreclarifying information as to the context. We all know that context it a concept you have trouble with.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Quote:

In our farm rich area of New York State , biologists would like to see no more than 35-40 deer per square mile. Unfortunately these numbers haven’t been seen for more than two decades.

If you are questioning the 45 doe harvest PSM then you are questioning Alshiemers veracity. Apparently you also missed the portion of the above quote that states that the biologist would like to see no more than 35-40 DPSM,which is double what the PGC recommended for our best habitat and it is 6 times what the PGC recommended for 5C which has excellent deer habitat.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Round and Round we go.....

Where we stop, nobody knows!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

I have been surfacing the net trying to find what QDMA would recommend as the preferred carrying capacity for PA. As yet i have not been able to find anything on the QDMA website that specified the appropriate deer density for PA. Can you tell us what deer density QDMA would recommend for PA?

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

This post will make BTB's day since he questioned the ridiculous doe harvest rates Alsheimer recommended. Like BTB I questioned those harvest rates so I checked on the data from Steuben Co. NY and found that their buck harvest rate was 4.4 buck PSM. The 2006 buck harvest rate for 2A in PA was 4.47 buck PSM and a antlerless harvest rate of only 13.86 DPSM continued to reduce the herd.

So although Alsheimer claimed that a harvest rate of 29 doe PSM was sustainable, it is apparent that a harvest rate that high was nothing but a gross exaggeration.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

setting our differences aside for a moment, I think a good guess would be that he intended to say thar 29 was a target deer density. That would be more in line with the rest of the article

JMHO

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

If you go back and read the article you will see that is not a rational explanation. Alsheimer referred to a harvest rate of 32 doe PSM on his property and a QDMA recommendation of 29 DPSM. He also said that the biologist recommended a deer density of 35-40 DPSM for his area in NY.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Here is another whopper told by another DR. , David deClasta talking about the results from the QDMA Cooperative at Kinzua.

Quote:

Fawn recruitment (34%) was an
improvement over 2004 but still below target level. Buck:doe ratio in 2005 (1 buck:4.7 does)
was much improved over previous years and close to goal.

After reducing the herd by 48%, and implementing ARs, deClasta is still claiming that the B/D ratio is 1:4.7 which is next to impossible. The statewide average B/D ratio before herd reduction and ARs in PA was 1:2.1.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe

Quote:

Anyone who believes that the BD ratio was 1:2.1 is definitely smokin what you're sellin