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ORIGINAL: bluebird2


Actually it is you and the PGC that is clinging to antiquated ideas . The new and improved deer management as promoted by the QDMA supports sustainable deer densities that will yield a harvest of 29 doe PSM. The best managed WMU in PA ,where the PA plan has been the most effective,is producing a harvest of less than 2 doe PSM.

So ,it appears that SS,Cornelius and I are spearheading the QDM movement in PA,while you are desperately clinging to the antiquated deer management promoted by the PGC.

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Original Sniveling squeal:

As for alpha hunter Bob,...I don't suffer from anger issues. However, unlike the case appears against you,I don't measure myself by the deerI kill.I simply love hunting, and enjoy it immensely. If you measure yourself by the manufactured bucks you kill in Illinois, and flaunt your "badges"....one has to ask, are you compensating for something? Sometimes, Bud, its just better to be silent, and thought an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt! You obviously support high deer numbers on those managed properties in Ill...yet advocate deer numbers so low the PGC should be ashamed to even admit. We are currently debating this with RSB, as to the difference in CC between farmland and edge habitat as dominates Illinois, as well as much of PA. If you have anything intelligent to add to that conversation, feel free to join in. Want to take a poke at why you aren't managing your Illinois properties at 8-9 dpsm? RSB has claimed that during the winter there will be nothing for the der as it wil all be under snow pack, so only available woody browse should be considered when determining the CC of a localized habitat.

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Few have studied the antler restriction issue more than Pennsylvania ’s Dr. Gary Alt. His conclusions led to a statewide antler point restriction in 2002.

“What we are trying to do is have a more natural antlered-buck-to-adult-doe-ratio and a more natural breeding ecology. We feel that reducing the number of adult does and increasing the antlered buck population is in the best interest of the deer resource,” he explains.

“Scientists told us that to fix our Pennsylvania problem we needed to save half of our yearling bucks. This is why we collected information on 73,000 bucks in the four years prior to antler restrictions. We learned that in order to save half of the yearling bucks, the majority of counties in Pennsylvania needed to restrict the harvest of bucks with fewer than three points on a side. Had we not done the research on our yearlings, we wouldn’t have known this.”

“Prior to antler restrictions, only about 50,000 Pennsylvania bucks survived the state’s annual deer season, and just one in one hundred survived to age four. With antler restrictions, we’ve been able to save 75,000 to 100,000 bucks the first year.

“Launching 75,000 to 100,000 bucks into the next age class tripled the number of bucks age two or older,” notes Alt. “This tripled the number of bucks with eight or more points in just one year, so a by-product of antler restrictions is that hunters have been able to see more and bigger bucks. To offset the killing of less bucks we knew we needed to harvest more does by the same number and we’ve tried hard to accomplish this.”

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Uh, anyone who takes the time to read your post addressing me personally will see the rage and frustration you obviously have pent up inside. You chose to personally attack me with some left field allegations after being a part of this forum for exactly two days. The first thing you need tounderstand is that hunting is not a competitive sport and if you can't accept that, you need to take up another hobby.

This thread was started as an attack on certain deer experts as evidenced by the title "Witch doctors". In this thread as in many others, I challenged bluebird for posting things incorrectly. He has been banned here under no less than four other screen names for doing that very thing before. You are either him under yet another name or something I said hit home enough for you to take it personally. Whatever it was, it wasn't directed at you unless you are another AKA Bluebird.

I dispute Bluebird here constantly because he relentlessly posts long messages brimming with numbers and often takes many convoluted steps to take facts out of context to cause 2+2 to appear to equal 3. If that is what offended you, too bad.

As for the personal attacks, Is that the best you got? Being called the alpha hunter would normally be a complement but not when it comes from an omega hunter. (I'll save you time byexplaining to you that Alpha is the first andOmega is the last word in the greek alphabet) And calling me scooter? Wow, LOL, I'm really hurt and hoppin mad now!

Your attack sparked a response appropriate for you. Sniveling squeal now seems more an appropriate handle for you. I'm sure screaming steel feels more macho butit doesn't fit the image you've put out here. Want to stopthe personal attacks and name calling? Make an apology for starting it all and I'll remove every part of my responses that sunk down to your level.

You haven't got a clue about me but you give us all some major clues about you. Your words were ripe with jealous rage. So much so thatyoumight as well have posted your words in green. I don't call myself an alpha hunter so for you to say it in the context you did heavily implies and inherent jealousy for your perception of what you think to be my measure of success. Here's a clue, hunting is not a competitive sport and if you see it as one, you really need to consider another pastime.

You hide behind a screen name yet you take me to task for listing my associations with pro hunting,profishing and conservation groups.Again,if that offends you, don't read it.

You might want to count to 10 or better yet, have someone help you count to 100 before you post again. As I said above, this can end now but it's all up to you.

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ORIGINAL: Sniveling squeal
Why end it? It's quite entertaining. Poke fun atmy screen name if you like. It's a reference to my bike, not myself, so no harm no foul. As for my casting a stereotype on you...is it really any more unfair than the stereotype you stamp upon anyone who disgrees with the PGC's management practices? That we are all disgruntled, three day hunters whose lucky stump went cold? I feel no obligation to refute your claim, but I'll make the gesture for entertainment purposes. My seven of my last eight deer came with a bow. I won't bother trying to calculate how many hours I log in the woods during bow season, gun season, scouting, etc. But suffice it to say that it's plenty. And for the record, I am fully capable of killing deer at will. I've tagged a rack buck four of the last five years, last year I miffed on a mature deer that responded to a combination of my calling and strategic scent placement, and though I did not tag a buck,I had the satisfaction on passing six legal bucks, and two that were pretty nice. It was a great year. By the way...aside from the pleasure of sharing the stories of the hunt, all of that has nothing to do with whether or not a resource is being managed responsibly. Individual success never did and never will gauge the success of a mgt plan. There are just too many variables at play. Was my stereotype of you unfair? Maybe. But your's was as well. You simply refuse to give any credit to anyone who disagrees with the current course. Rather tha even consider the possibilities, it is easier to write them off as disgruntled stump sitters.

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The new and improved deer management as promoted by the QDMA supports sustainable deer densities that will yield a harvest of 29 doe PSM. The best managed WMU in PA ,where the PA plan has been the most effective,is producing a harvest of less than 2 doe PSM.

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In any event, it wasn't his proposal, it was the QDM crowd, obviously speaking of the properties that they routinely manage at such high densities.

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As for Bluebird, I'm no newcomer to his discussions. I've been following this debate for good long time myself. I've rarely seen anyone with such a good grasp of the PGC data, and so efficient at using it to dispute the current deer plan.

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Maybe if you ask him "real nice", he will provide you with some details of his background, and how that qualifies him sufficiently to speak on habitat issues.

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BTW, I didn't expect you would believe that I am anything other than a stump sitter, so your further speculation on my hunting ability doesn't bother me, either.

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