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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

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Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Old 10-13-2008, 07:41 PM
  #231  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

ORIGINAL: bluebird2

RSB likes to blame the decrease in productivity on the decrease in the number of does checked in the areas with high productivity. But , the results from the Kinzua QDM Coop . shows that this is not the case. Fawn production dropped from 56 fawns/100 does in 2001 to 44 fawns/100 doe in 2005. During that period the herd was reduced by 48% so the food supply/doe should have doubled during the period when fawn production dropped by 14%.

So can anyone one explain why fawn production decreased instead of increasing as predicted?

food may have a affect on number of fawns.

i dont doubt it does but i still feel the coyotes are killing a lot of fawns.

also alt told me killing doe in oct will reduce the number of fawns..

we had fawns before HR went into affect.

we DID NOT HAVE COYOTES like we do now before HR.

i saw coyotes kill 2 fawns at alvin bush dam,now, that was only 1 incident.

if herd is down , a coyote could do a lot of damage.

i have picture of 2 coyotes going after a doe and her fawn.shows doe looking and 13 seconds next picture and doe are gone.

IF THOSE COYOTES WERE NOT KILLING FAWNS,THOSE DOE WOULD NOT BE ALARMED AND RUN.

i have fox in my yard on film also, he walks right up to my 2 bucks and 5 doe and fawn and none seem alarmed,yet my pictures of coyote and deer are out of area quick.

i cant get my name off picture so i can post it here or btb putting it on for me.

also hunters are shooting the doe in feb ,they even told me that they had fawns in the doe.

we NEVER killed a doe in late muzzleloader season,only bucks.

i feel its HR,COYOTES,EARLY OCT. HUNT,FEB HUNT,FOOD.

PENN STATE SAYS BEARS,yet i never saw bear kill a fawn but i did coyotes.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:14 AM
  #232  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Sproul, you doggone right they kill fawns! Ugliest thing you ever seen what the leftovers look like. We have seen them w/ a placenta attached, scared these yotes off a fresh kill . they did not have the time to eat it. They had to have been scenting this doe or following her for a while, it almost looked as thought they pulled it out of her. Momma was about 50 yards off in a thicket watching. I am sure there is some bear predation but them coyotes , man they do some damage!
I was told kill or fill your doe tag before the traditional rut. That way you ain't killing pregnant does, usually bow hunting is closer and you can see the little spikers/buttons. Everyone got an opinion, can't keep track of them all. I guess I just gota use common sense.............
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:10 AM
  #233  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

It's been over a month since I have posted this thread. Ihunted the first 9 days ofOhio's archery season before having to return to Pa.
Here is my Ohio experience... At minimum, I saw 5 buck per day (most were young buck). However nearly every day I hunted I passed up deer which would have scored 120 plus. I had opportunities to shoot at 3 deer which would have scored over 130 - 145?Two of those shots I didn't feel comfortable taking and the third was blown when a 3 pointer saw me draw back on the biggest of the deer I had seen.The 3 pointercame in from my right (when hunting out of a blind) while I was focused on the shooter standing at 20 yds. to my far left. He blew just as I was ready to release, spooking the deer I was ready to seal the deal on. He distanced himself and never gave me another opportunity.

Here is my PA experience... I have hunted 33 hours here in Pa. This is what I have seen. 1 yearling doe at 20 yds. I passed her up hoping for an older doe to come along or a decent buck worth shooting. I haven't seen a deer since and I have hunted 4 different stands. I didn't think I could be more disgusted with hunting in PA.
I haven't heard of anyone seeing many deer this season and only know of 3 buck in my area having been shot. It's no hotter this year than last and there are less acorns than last. It's not the heat and it's not like there is so much food that they don't need to travel.Plus the deer have lost about 300 acres of cover habitat due to the local clubs timbering off the majority of their land. Those deer should be now inhabitating the surrounding areas that I hunt but they aren't. So where are all the deer? Every day last season I was able to see at least 3 doe each morning in the beginning of the season and now I have seen one deer this year.

This is the real proof of the effectiveness of the PAGC's deer management program. You can take their surveys and their studies and their practices and stick them up your arse since that is where your head is if you believe they are doing a good job across the whole state.
I'm disappointed and angry. I hope the rest of you are having a better experience.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:18 AM
  #234  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

4evr. I agree. Ohio is so much better its not even funny.

Im not hunting there this year unfortunately but have several.

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Old 10-15-2008, 11:20 AM
  #235  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

They arent trying to destroy the deer herd, and they do not have an unaccoutable rogue independant management agency that thinks it can do whatever it wants and they dont cater to whatever non-huning interest group they like (audubon society and other eco-extreme antideer organizations) The hunter/management agency relations are also very good, compared to Pa, absolutely fantastic! They also dont have our rediculous deer wars.

Ohio with Tonkovich at the helm,is a nationalleader in deer management and are so far ahead of Pa its rediculous.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:24 AM
  #236  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

The thing I hate is this.. I enjoy hunting turkey, grouse and coyotes but I Hate the idea of funding our Game commission by purchasing the general license just to hunt these. I am giving it some very serious consideration that this might be my last year purchasing a PA license. I wish it was like in Ohio.. If you own land whether an acre or a thousand acres you do not need to buy a license to hunt your property. I am tired of paying the PAGC for the ability to recieve a benefit from my hard work.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:54 AM
  #237  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

I agree 100%. If Ohio or WV were a little closer, Id hunt one or the other and never give pgc another stinkin' dime! We are paying them to slit our own throats and further eco-extremeist agendas!! I think its absolutely a crime that We must pay to have them mismanage our deer herd, to constant lie to us, to belittle the hunters of our state such as has been done on a regular basis by some of the boc etc. To pay them so they waste our money on things like all the pr materials and time spent trying to sell the failed program to the public, tons of pamphlets all saying the same thing kill the deer!, openhouses, habitat brainwash tours, videos, man hours and studies necessary to continue the failed program...etc.

And they want us to pay MORE money to do it? HA! Ive contacted our legislators and we do have some fine ones who are also very avidhunters who like Pgcs policies about the same as we do! Hopefully they stick to their guns and keep denying that license fee increase until it makes a difference. They do need our support so Id encourage anyone who disagrees with pgc rediculous current direction to contact the legislators and let them know you DO NOT support having to pay more money until some reasonable changes are made. Eco-extremist days of dictating what we must accept are numbered. Without "other" forms of funding, like they have strongly been pushing for, they cannot continue "eco-extreme" wildlife mismanagement if our legislators "stay the course" and dont allow further funding for the nonsense to continue and expand.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:34 PM
  #238  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

Once agains,RSB,as I said before just because the PGC is doin it,don't make it right.It's real easy to follow the program when your people write it.
That does not necessarily mean it works.When you write the rules,it's easy to justify why you're doing what you're doing.Just another case of overanylizing like I said before.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:53 PM
  #239  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

[quote]ORIGINAL: bluebird2

You're assuming the cause and effect. Yes, both HR and a decrease in productivity per animal happened at the same time but that does not prove a cause and effect relationship[/quote

It certainly does if you can't identify any other factor that would account for the decrease in breeding and productivity. What you are missing is that HR not only reduces the number of deer , it has another effect that should be obvious to every one with an open mind and it explains why breeding rates and productivity have decreased. Can you identify that effect?

RSB listed plenty of other possible factors. You simply chose to ignore those possibilities
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:12 PM
  #240  
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Default RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul

RSB listed plenty of other possible factors. You simply chose to ignore those possibilities
RSB only listed two other factors , severe winters and a poor mast crop. Severe winters and a poor mast crop will occur periodically whether there are 8 DPSM or 15 DPSM. Under the same conditions the PS deer density will be higher with 15 OWDPSM than with a herd with only 8 OWD PSM. The effects of predation and non-hunting mortality increase with low deer densities so once again RSB was just blowing smoke.
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