Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
10-23-2008, 09:01 PM
#331
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: Big Country
Getting ready to walk out the door for southern Ohio, and 4 days of whitetail hunting.
I expect you guys to have the PGC deer plan straightened out when I get back.
And watch out for those mountain lions.
Getting ready to walk out the door for southern Ohio, and 4 days of whitetail hunting.
I expect you guys to have the PGC deer plan straightened out when I get back.
And watch out for those mountain lions.
lucky you
10-23-2008, 09:08 PM
#332
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
No I dont want you to satand on your head. I'll just ask you to think about what you said.
I know you feel it's happening and I know it's hard to prove but thats not a reason to punish thiose who dont break the law. I dont necessarily agree that it's happening much but no matter what, the answer is not to be found in changing the rules in a way that will only chnage things for those who already obey the law.
Now do you really feel it's fair to penalize the 100,000 or so young hunters we have because you feel it's going on?
Think of it this way.... Do you beleive gun control will stop even one bad guy from getting a gun??
Should all of our cars have governers on them because some people speed?
Should a policeman be able to search your car or home because some people stash drugs in their homes and cars?
I think you get my point. I am always against penalizing the law abiding folks because someone out there doesnt want to play by the rules
You've suggested that the relaxed AR only be for 12 year olds. I don't think most young hunters or dads would have a problem with the kid stepping up to adult standards once he has a buck or two under his belt. My idea (and this would work once the new point of sale system is in place) would be to issue a first time youth license buyer two special tags without a year on them but with "his" hunter ID number on it (that will come with the new system) A youth hunter would be required to use that special tag along with his regular season buck tag on a "protected buck". He gets a max of two then he has to abide by big boy standards. What that does is allow a young hunter better odds to take a his first buck whether he is 12, 14 or even 16 when that first chance comes along.
Statistically, the youh harvest of protected bucks is not having any real effect. Lets do all we can to help reverse this disturbing trend of our states kids not taking up our great sport. Lets d all we can to prevent and prosecute abuses but lets not penalize the good kids and dads out there. The poachers will find a way no matter what the law says.
No I dont want you to satand on your head. I'll just ask you to think about what you said.
only thing you are right on is, I HAVE NOT SEEN IT HAPPEN ,only what i FEEL is happening from info i hear
Now do you really feel it's fair to penalize the 100,000 or so young hunters we have because you feel it's going on?
Think of it this way.... Do you beleive gun control will stop even one bad guy from getting a gun??
Should all of our cars have governers on them because some people speed?
Should a policeman be able to search your car or home because some people stash drugs in their homes and cars?
I think you get my point. I am always against penalizing the law abiding folks because someone out there doesnt want to play by the rules
You've suggested that the relaxed AR only be for 12 year olds. I don't think most young hunters or dads would have a problem with the kid stepping up to adult standards once he has a buck or two under his belt. My idea (and this would work once the new point of sale system is in place) would be to issue a first time youth license buyer two special tags without a year on them but with "his" hunter ID number on it (that will come with the new system) A youth hunter would be required to use that special tag along with his regular season buck tag on a "protected buck". He gets a max of two then he has to abide by big boy standards. What that does is allow a young hunter better odds to take a his first buck whether he is 12, 14 or even 16 when that first chance comes along.
Statistically, the youh harvest of protected bucks is not having any real effect. Lets do all we can to help reverse this disturbing trend of our states kids not taking up our great sport. Lets d all we can to prevent and prosecute abuses but lets not penalize the good kids and dads out there. The poachers will find a way no matter what the law says.
this is why i said to wco last week,PLEASE STOP HUNTERS AND TELL THEM THAT BROWN ITS DOWN WITH KIDS ALONG WILL NOT BE ALLOWED.
that would be a big help.
do you know we have not seen wco in 2 years here in clinton county in woods on roads etc.
hunters know this.
they NEVER filled the vacancy of local wco here in clinton.
yes, you are right too, let kids at 12 years old only kill a small spike buck but after that, they have to shoot 3 point in wmu2g.
that would be a big help on slowing the BIDWKT hunters.
they would only get 1 year to break law and maybe only 1 or 2 buck instead of having those kids until age 16 .
TRUST ME, it is being abused and ones doing it are VERY HAPPY.[:@]
10-23-2008, 09:31 PM
#333
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: pick00l
I don't agree with this 100%. The guys who take risky shots with a rifle will take the same shot with the inline. I'm sure to them.. it does not matter. Comes down to the way you hunt or the ethics you practice. Just my opinion.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
I like someone's idea about a couple youth tags for non-AR bucks. Think it could be a good idea. The only part I don't get is... does getting a buck make the experience. Getting into hunting, won;t kids be satisfied getting does or understanding that you can only shoot larger bucks still have a positive impact? When did hunting become the ....I have to bag a buck or I am never hunting again? I hunted for year before getting a deer or a good crack at one. It made me want to hunt more, not less. I know each person differers in their experience. I'm just not convinced this rule makes or breaks the young hunter. I'm for AR's and if we want a exception to the rule lets limit it to one buck and any time.. If not, lets get away from the notion that killing a buck makes or breaks youth from hunting again.
I think more important is youth seeing deer, seeing buck (any buck), seeing turkey, fox etc. The excitement is in the hunt, the kill is usually the icing and candles. To each their own, this is a nice thread with lots of good ideas and debate. I enjoy reading it.
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
The reason I have a preference for the inline in comparison to the rifle is you must apply the one shot one kill strategy. This will decrease the amount of risky shots taken and wounding deer. More patience will be necessary and more practice will be necessary. The shotgun can hold 3 shells and you will still have guys who are willing to sacrifice range for amount of ammo, but this is still better than having the ability to send 5 rds down range at running deer.
The reason I have a preference for the inline in comparison to the rifle is you must apply the one shot one kill strategy. This will decrease the amount of risky shots taken and wounding deer. More patience will be necessary and more practice will be necessary. The shotgun can hold 3 shells and you will still have guys who are willing to sacrifice range for amount of ammo, but this is still better than having the ability to send 5 rds down range at running deer.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
I like someone's idea about a couple youth tags for non-AR bucks. Think it could be a good idea. The only part I don't get is... does getting a buck make the experience. Getting into hunting, won;t kids be satisfied getting does or understanding that you can only shoot larger bucks still have a positive impact? When did hunting become the ....I have to bag a buck or I am never hunting again? I hunted for year before getting a deer or a good crack at one. It made me want to hunt more, not less. I know each person differers in their experience. I'm just not convinced this rule makes or breaks the young hunter. I'm for AR's and if we want a exception to the rule lets limit it to one buck and any time.. If not, lets get away from the notion that killing a buck makes or breaks youth from hunting again.
I think more important is youth seeing deer, seeing buck (any buck), seeing turkey, fox etc. The excitement is in the hunt, the kill is usually the icing and candles. To each their own, this is a nice thread with lots of good ideas and debate. I enjoy reading it.
do you know what a school teacher told me about what kids said about deer hunting here in pa.
he it goes;HE SAID KIDS SAID THAT IT DID NOT MATTER IF THEY GOT BUCK OR DOE,THEY SAID THAT ITS 150 DOLLARS A DEER AND THEY ARE GOING TO FILL EVERY TAG THEY CAN.[:@]
now, isnt that great that all that is worried about is all money in MEAT that they are going to get with todays prices.
man, this was depressing thing for me to hear today from him, i was SHOCKED and now feel that getting a buck means nothing to most kids now.
he also said that DEER JERKY is more important and bragged about by kids than showing a picture of nice buck.
this was very sad thing for me to hear
10-24-2008, 05:56 AM
#334
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: pick00l
I don't agree with this 100%. The guys who take risky shots with a rifle will take the same shot with the inline. I'm sure to them.. it does not matter. Comes down to the way you hunt or the ethics you practice. Just my opinion.
Twice last year I had been in the line of fire of hunters who were shooting at deer. In both instances the first shot was taken at a running deer at over 70 yds the first shots were followed by other shots until the deer was no longer in sight or the guy was out of ammo. It's harder to be sure of the targets backstop when the target is traveling and the hunter is too busy reloading to use common sense in the excitement of the situation. I do not want to make it seem this is how I feel about hunters in general b/c I am a hunter. However, for the few idiots out in the woods during rifle season my feeling is this... the less ammo they have the better. It has never NEVER taken me more than 1 shot to kill a deer using a .243. However there have been times I made a second shot just to be sure and I am at fault in those incidents. Too worried about that deer running into another hunter instead of being patient and doing some tracking. My feeling is also this.... If I am in the woods hunting deer with a rifle that means I screwed up in archery.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
I like someone's idea about a couple youth tags for non-AR bucks. Think it could be a good idea. The only part I don't get is... does getting a buck make the experience. Getting into hunting, won;t kids be satisfied getting does or understanding that you can only shoot larger bucks still have a positive impact? When did hunting become the ....I have to bag a buck or I am never hunting again? I hunted for year before getting a deer or a good crack at one. It made me want to hunt more, not less. I know each person differers in their experience. I'm just not convinced this rule makes or breaks the young hunter. I'm for AR's and if we want a exception to the rule lets limit it to one buck and any time.. If not, lets get away from the notion that killing a buck makes or breaks youth from hunting again.
I agree with the limitations being put on the number of (less than AR) buck being harvested. I like the 2 tag idea.
I think more important is youth seeing deer, seeing buck (any buck), seeing turkey, fox etc. The excitement is in the hunt, the kill is usually the icing and candles. To each their own, this is a nice thread with lots of good ideas and debate. I enjoy reading it.
I agree, glad you like the thread!
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
The reason I have a preference for the inline in comparison to the rifle is you must apply the one shot one kill strategy. This will decrease the amount of risky shots taken and wounding deer. More patience will be necessary and more practice will be necessary. The shotgun can hold 3 shells and you will still have guys who are willing to sacrifice range for amount of ammo, but this is still better than having the ability to send 5 rds down range at running deer.
The reason I have a preference for the inline in comparison to the rifle is you must apply the one shot one kill strategy. This will decrease the amount of risky shots taken and wounding deer. More patience will be necessary and more practice will be necessary. The shotgun can hold 3 shells and you will still have guys who are willing to sacrifice range for amount of ammo, but this is still better than having the ability to send 5 rds down range at running deer.
Twice last year I had been in the line of fire of hunters who were shooting at deer. In both instances the first shot was taken at a running deer at over 70 yds the first shots were followed by other shots until the deer was no longer in sight or the guy was out of ammo. It's harder to be sure of the targets backstop when the target is traveling and the hunter is too busy reloading to use common sense in the excitement of the situation. I do not want to make it seem this is how I feel about hunters in general b/c I am a hunter. However, for the few idiots out in the woods during rifle season my feeling is this... the less ammo they have the better. It has never NEVER taken me more than 1 shot to kill a deer using a .243. However there have been times I made a second shot just to be sure and I am at fault in those incidents. Too worried about that deer running into another hunter instead of being patient and doing some tracking. My feeling is also this.... If I am in the woods hunting deer with a rifle that means I screwed up in archery.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
I like someone's idea about a couple youth tags for non-AR bucks. Think it could be a good idea. The only part I don't get is... does getting a buck make the experience. Getting into hunting, won;t kids be satisfied getting does or understanding that you can only shoot larger bucks still have a positive impact? When did hunting become the ....I have to bag a buck or I am never hunting again? I hunted for year before getting a deer or a good crack at one. It made me want to hunt more, not less. I know each person differers in their experience. I'm just not convinced this rule makes or breaks the young hunter. I'm for AR's and if we want a exception to the rule lets limit it to one buck and any time.. If not, lets get away from the notion that killing a buck makes or breaks youth from hunting again.
I agree with the limitations being put on the number of (less than AR) buck being harvested. I like the 2 tag idea.
I think more important is youth seeing deer, seeing buck (any buck), seeing turkey, fox etc. The excitement is in the hunt, the kill is usually the icing and candles. To each their own, this is a nice thread with lots of good ideas and debate. I enjoy reading it.
I agree, glad you like the thread!
10-24-2008, 08:00 AM
#335
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 182
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
ORIGINAL: pick00l
I don't agree with this 100%. The guys who take risky shots with a rifle will take the same shot with the inline. I'm sure to them.. it does not matter. Comes down to the way you hunt or the ethics you practice. Just my opinion.
Twice last year I had been in the line of fire of hunters who were shooting at deer. In both instances the first shot was taken at a running deer at over 70 yds the first shots were followed by other shots until the deer was no longer in sight or the guy was out of ammo. It's harder to be sure of the targets backstop when the target is traveling and the hunter is too busy reloading to use common sense in the excitement of the situation. I do not want to make it seem this is how I feel about hunters in general b/c I am a hunter. However, for the few idiots out in the woods during rifle season my feeling is this... the less ammo they have the better. It has never NEVER taken me more than 1 shot to kill a deer using a .243. However there have been times I made a second shot just to be sure and I am at fault in those incidents. Too worried about that deer running into another hunter instead of being patient and doing some tracking. My feeling is also this.... If I am in the woods hunting deer with a rifle that means I screwed up in archery.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
Twice last year I had been in the line of fire of hunters who were shooting at deer. In both instances the first shot was taken at a running deer at over 70 yds the first shots were followed by other shots until the deer was no longer in sight or the guy was out of ammo. It's harder to be sure of the targets backstop when the target is traveling and the hunter is too busy reloading to use common sense in the excitement of the situation. I do not want to make it seem this is how I feel about hunters in general b/c I am a hunter. However, for the few idiots out in the woods during rifle season my feeling is this... the less ammo they have the better. It has never NEVER taken me more than 1 shot to kill a deer using a .243. However there have been times I made a second shot just to be sure and I am at fault in those incidents. Too worried about that deer running into another hunter instead of being patient and doing some tracking. My feeling is also this.... If I am in the woods hunting deer with a rifle that means I screwed up in archery.
I like rifle season because, I like rifles. This is for PA. In Delaware, I hunt with an inline. Unless the mountains in PA get to populated, I like the rifle stance we have now. This does not change me waiting for a good shot.
Ha.. I'm the same way. Gun season is a way to reflect on what I did wrong in Archery.
10-24-2008, 02:41 PM
#336
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
I'm glad some of us agree on some things. I like the idea of using inlines. The T/C Encore and similar T/C inlines and the new Knight rifle offer the interchangeable barrels which for those die hard rifle hunters they still have the ability to use the inline with whatever caliber they wish for game such as coyotes, bear, etc.
I don't support Obama's position on banning semi auto weapons I am not an advocate for imposing on gun owner's rights, I do not think anyone has the right to modify any of the constitutional ammendments. However I think having the rifle season as it is with everyone walking around with a minimum of 5 rds each for "a" deer results in more wounded deer and a more dangerous environment.
Yes, some will still take unethical shots. But with the knowledge that they must make the first shot count, alot of these guys may use a little more patience and careful shot placement and maybe they might shoot their weapons more than just once before the season opener.
Once Again, Most hunters are responsible and ethical in their shot placement. But the harm done by the irresponsible ones reflects on all of us.
Anyone who disagrees feel free to express their thoughts. If against an inline/shotgun season only, explain why and the real benefit of not implementing such a season.
I don't support Obama's position on banning semi auto weapons I am not an advocate for imposing on gun owner's rights, I do not think anyone has the right to modify any of the constitutional ammendments. However I think having the rifle season as it is with everyone walking around with a minimum of 5 rds each for "a" deer results in more wounded deer and a more dangerous environment.
Yes, some will still take unethical shots. But with the knowledge that they must make the first shot count, alot of these guys may use a little more patience and careful shot placement and maybe they might shoot their weapons more than just once before the season opener.
Once Again, Most hunters are responsible and ethical in their shot placement. But the harm done by the irresponsible ones reflects on all of us.
Anyone who disagrees feel free to express their thoughts. If against an inline/shotgun season only, explain why and the real benefit of not implementing such a season.
10-24-2008, 02:56 PM
#337
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn
I will be the first to admit I do not know everything and I may be incorrect in my assumption of the influence of insurance companies. Till I can prove otherwise I will concede (for now).
I will be the first to admit I do not know everything and I may be incorrect in my assumption of the influence of insurance companies. Till I can prove otherwise I will concede (for now).
10-24-2008, 03:47 PM
#338
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Anyone who disagrees feel free to express their thoughts. If against an inline/shotgun season only, explain why and the real benefit of not implementing such a season.
Studies have shown that there are more hunting accidents in shotgun only areas than with rifles. How many wounded deer will escape and not be recovered if hunters are restricted to single shot in-lines?
10-24-2008, 06:57 PM
#339
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Good points.
Economy- (Considering the current state of things) the purchasing of new guns compared to possible loss in license sales will cancel each other out. I'd love to see the PAGC hurt financially, maybe then policies will change.
As far as cost goes a basic inline is far cheaper than purchasing a newhigh powered rifle.
Youth hand-me-downs is something I haven't considered. But most of us have shotguns already. True, some are not equipped with slug barrels but there are replacement barrels available at less cost than purchasing a new gun.
As far as hunters quitting b/c of having to use a single shot weapon. ????? My opinion is this and I said it before.... if you need more than one shot to impact a vital area you should be on the range not in the woods or you shouldn't take the shot.
Higher Amount Of Injuries... with shot ammo yes, but with slugs???? What is the difference between sending a poorly placed bullet down range or a poorly placed slug? The bullet will travel further having covered more distance and with that more unintential targets in it's path.
Market value? High powered rifles cost the same in states where this has already been implemented, even second-hand rifles.
Consider this.. In states like Ohio, "rifle" season is far shorter than ours but the archery season lasts straight through to February. Even with not having a high powered rifle season there is still more hunting opportunity than here.
Economy- (Considering the current state of things) the purchasing of new guns compared to possible loss in license sales will cancel each other out. I'd love to see the PAGC hurt financially, maybe then policies will change.
As far as cost goes a basic inline is far cheaper than purchasing a newhigh powered rifle.
Youth hand-me-downs is something I haven't considered. But most of us have shotguns already. True, some are not equipped with slug barrels but there are replacement barrels available at less cost than purchasing a new gun.
As far as hunters quitting b/c of having to use a single shot weapon. ????? My opinion is this and I said it before.... if you need more than one shot to impact a vital area you should be on the range not in the woods or you shouldn't take the shot.
Higher Amount Of Injuries... with shot ammo yes, but with slugs???? What is the difference between sending a poorly placed bullet down range or a poorly placed slug? The bullet will travel further having covered more distance and with that more unintential targets in it's path.
Market value? High powered rifles cost the same in states where this has already been implemented, even second-hand rifles.
Consider this.. In states like Ohio, "rifle" season is far shorter than ours but the archery season lasts straight through to February. Even with not having a high powered rifle season there is still more hunting opportunity than here.
10-24-2008, 07:18 PM
#340
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Economy- (Considering the current state of things) the purchasing of new guns compared to possible loss in license sales will cancel each other out. I'd love to see the PAGC hurt financially, maybe then policies will change.
Economy- (Considering the current state of things) the purchasing of new guns compared to possible loss in license sales will cancel each other out. I'd love to see the PAGC hurt financially, maybe then policies will change.
That is not a valid point because the vast majority of hunters already have their rifles and most juniors use hand me downs.
As far as hunters quitting b/c of having to use a single shot weapon. ????? My opinion is this and I said it before.... if you need more than one shot to impact a vital area you should be on the range not in the woods or you shouldn't take the shot.
As far as hunters quitting b/c of having to use a single shot weapon. ????? My opinion is this and I said it before.... if you need more than one shot to impact a vital area you should be on the range not in the woods or you shouldn't take the shot.
As far as hunters quitting b/c of having to use a single shot weapon. ????? My opinion is this and I said it before.... if you need more than one shot to impact a vital area you should be on the range not in the woods or you shouldn't take the shot.
[quoteConsider this.. In states like Ohio, "rifle" season is far shorter than ours but the archery season lasts straight through to February. Even with not having a high powered rifle season there is still more hunting opportunity than here.
][/quote]
More hunting opportunities for only one class of hunter, the class that is the least effective at controlling the herd.
