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RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: livbucks We went over this prior and my contention was that high grading can't happen on 1.5 year old bucks. The rack development is dictated by external factors too much at that age. Somehow the idea didn't get across when I was saying it. Too much dilution of nutrition and birth date at 1.5 to have the harvesting of a certain characteristic make any difference. Did we not agree that a 1.5 year old spike can have the potential to grow a 12 point (example) rack, if left to it's devices? In order to prevent high grading, the point restrictions have to be set to protect around 90% of the 1.5 buck and with a restriction that high it protects too many 2.5+ buck. |
RE: PA antler restriction
You simply do not understand the meaning of high grading. While it is true that no one can tell the potential of a 1.5 buck, Dr. Kroll's research shows that a 1.5 spike takes 3 years to catch up with a 1.5 6 pt. So while we don't know the potential of the spike we do know that the 6 pt. has more potential to develop a large rack quicker than the spike. But, because the 6 pt. is harvested as a 1.5 it never comes close to reaching its potential and the spike may be legal as a 2.5 and not live long enough to demonstrate that it had the potential to become an 8 pt. This results in smaller average rack sizes for 2.5 buck due to ARs. |
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: Mr. Slim bt, im not far from conemaugh dam. havent fished the river in years though ive heard of people catching some decent fish out of there. my brother fishes right below the dam for carp. some big ones in there. i see people fishing right below the saltsburg bridge quite often. the guy that owns the bait shop across from kiski prep told me that a few trout have been caught down where black leggs creek runs into the river. might be worth a try sometime. have fun with the AR subject. seems like its got everyone wound up. |
RE: PA antler restriction
If you understood high grading you wouldn't have referenced high grading the gene pool in this post.
The only way we could high grade the gene pool is to not shoot bucks till they reach 4 1/2 and then take the best ones out. High grading before that age is a myth. So you are, in effect, saying that what you call high grading will occur with or without our present AR's, meaning that your prior claim that AR causes high grading is therefore false. Once again,You cant have it both ways. I am not citing my definition of high grading, I am citing Dr. Demarais's definition. You better reread his example of high grading a timber stand and maybe the light will go on. |
RE: PA antler restriction
Dr. Kroll: but genetics is the least important of all the factors leading to the production of quality bucks. I'm sure Bluebird will contradict the expert (he sometimes claims to admire when it suits him), in short order. |
RE: PA antler restriction
prior to AR's we were taking almost ALL bucks with 3" spikes or better. Research showed that number to be as high as 85% on a consisitent basis. BTW the old 3" spike rule is AR as well. It simply was a much lower threshold.
Another reason for supporting AR's that won't fit into your CPA methodolgy is that a 1.5 buck has very limited survival skills when it comes to avoiding predators (man) He's equivalent to a young teenagerAllowing them a pass during the first year allows them the opportunity to learn the skills to possibly survive more than that one year it takes to grow a legal rack. The results are still sketchy at this point but the premise that a buck allowed to live beyond opening day and his first deer season is better educated and equipped to survive to maturity and reach that 4 1/2 age class simply makes common sense. The results were never expected to be huge but even a few percent more making it to that age is an improvement |
RE: PA antler restriction
ORIGINAL: livbucks Dr. Kroll: but genetics is the least important of all the factors leading to the production of quality bucks. I'm sure Bluebird will contradict the expert (he sometimes claims to admire when it suits him), in short order. |
RE: PA antler restriction
prior to AR's we were taking almost ALL bucks with 3" spikes or better. Research showed that number to be as high as 85% on a consisitent basis. BTW the old 3" spike rule is AR as well. It simply was a much lower threshold. Another reason for supporting AR's that won't fit into your CPA methodolgy is that a 1.5 buck has very limited survival skills when it comes to avoiding predators (man) He's equivalent to a young teenagerAllowing them a pass during the first year allows them the opportunity to learn the skills to possibly survive more than that one year it takes to grow a legal rack. |
RE: PA antler restriction
Now you are just making things up to support your opinions. The antlered buck study showed that 1.5 buck had a high non-hunting survival rate, while only 20% of the 2.5+ buck survived hunting season and the majority of those buck were 2.5+ buck that weren't AR legal.. |
RE: PA antler restriction
Obviously, I am simply pointing out that the 1.5 bucks saved by AR don't get a lot smarter as BT claimed and therefore only 20% of the bucks saved by AR , survive to become 3.5 buck.
Do you have a problem with that? |
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