RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

There was allot of talk early on about adjusting this program to fit the different areas of this state.Different needs for different habitats.
So far the only adjustments have been token reductions in doe tags, which has more than made up for with longer seasons a other depredation tags.
The words of hunters continue to fall on deaf ears and support for the PGC continues to decline. Its a lose lose for all involved.

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Now here is my two cents.

I hunt most of the time in Jefferson County in 2D

My family traditional hunting spot was in a place called Loleta - which is near Clear Creek / Alleghaney National Forrest - Forrest County. 2F

My family - dad, uncle, grandfathers liked to hunt in a game lands - SGL 31

When I started to hunt - back in 1978, it was nothing to see 50 deer before lunch! We always got bucks and some of them were pretty massive.

Now my family did walk a couple of miles back into the game lands to get to their hunting spot and it did take them 1 1/2 hours to walk back there and twice that long to get one out.

Then the PGC came along and changed the rules and allowed multiple kills in one year. Now it is so bad, I didnt go back there since 1998!

This year, I have a hunting spot that is on a hillside on private property that is not posted. My brother sits 150 yards below me.

We sat in our tree stands from 6 AM to 5 Pm and I only saw 4 deer - all bucks.

My brother saw 4 bucks and one doe.

The second and third day we went to SGL 31 and hunted from 6 Am to 5 Pm and I never saw a deer!

The game comission opened up a road and now there is only a 1/2 hour walk from where we park to where we hunt. Only we are not the only people in there and the other hunters with the multiple tags - that feels that they have to shoot the first deer that comes down the trail - has cleaned out the deer.

My one brother did get a 7 point buck! = But I will guarentee you that it was deaf, dumb and blind - because my brother and my dad were eating lunch under a plastic tarp when they shot it. It rained pretty good all the first day.

That Thursday I went up to Loleta and I saw more deer up there in 2F than I saw any day - but the last day in 2D!

I actually saw a buck - practically every day this season and I hunted all 12 days! I saw several big bucks that were legal - from the road. But I don't hunt that way!

In 100 hours of hunting, I saw about 10 bucks and 5 does in Jefferson County (2d),and another 5 does in 5 hours of hunting in Loleta - Clearcreek - ANF.

Antler restrictions sucks!

I saw some old guys that shot a spike and said that it was legal because they were senior citizens and another group of hunters that shot a spike and said it was legal - because they had a 10 year old kid hunting with them. I never saw the kid!

I met a gentleman that had a new truck and a nice rifle that roadhunted a doe and shot it out the window and never tagged it in Clear Creek. I also saw multiple hunters that shot does out the window and never tagged them.

The last day I was on Posted Property - with Written Permission. I shot a doe at first light and 5 minutes later - 13 trucks came down the road and a bunch of hunters jumped out of their trucks and ran after the deer.
When I asked them if they had permission to be there, none of them had permission. They chased the deer around until about 11 AM and then they left. All 13 trucks at one time. Not one of them trucks was more than 5 years old.

They didn't have a roster - which is required for hunting parties of more than 5 people in Pennsylvania. They didn't have permission, they were tresspassing.
When I went to pick up my relatives, there was a gut pile right next to the road where they shot one out the window and dragged it to the truck. It probably wasn't tagged either.

The only game warden I saw was up near SGL 31 - about the second Wednesday. My dad said they saw 3 PGC trucks in one spot in the game lands the first week one day.

Now how are you going to have any deer when you have all of these shennagains going on out there?

We had 10 tags between 4 of us and two of us was shut out - no deer this year. I got two does and my brother got a buck and two doe's and that's it!

I believe and will abide by the rules - if they go back to one deer per a year, or go back to one buck and one doe per a year. But I do not believe that if they keep going in the direction they have been going in that there will be any significant deer hunting in 10 years if there are no deer left.

There will always be small pockets of deer , on posted land where you cannot hunt them and beside the houses. But as far as going out into the woods and seeing 10 deer in one day - I believe that those days are gone forever as long as the rules, seasons and bag limits stays the way they are right now!

I want to see deer, my family wants to see deer. Little kids wants to see deer. If there are no deer to hunt, there is no reason to go out into the woods and spend $1000 on guns and $1000's of dollars on pick up trucks, and $100's of dollars on hunting gear. $1000's of dollars on a hunting camp - just to see NOTHING!

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

I think it's time the SGL's are managed differently then other land.Too much hunting pressure and in some cases overharvesting.State forest land is another issue.
I know a feller who hunts southern clearfield county.In his area all the landowners are basically managing the deer with all land posted in a huge land mass.They have doe coming out the wazoo but don't shoot them {except for some kids}Having said that almost all of them got nice bucks this year.Only members and families hunt these parcels but the landowners got together and decided to manage this way.In his first day he killed his buck this feller saw over 70 deer.My point?A high pressured SGL should be managed differently then this private land.They're not going to let outsiders on so give them dmaps as they see fit.As private land access is reduced more pressure will be put on the SGL's which might result into some type of lottery system for shooting does and or bucks.

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Two of you shoot 5 deer and yet you complain, four doe great job thats really helping the very cause you bemoan. I give up.[:@]

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Loleta is on Millstone creek not Clear Creek. there are definitely less deer than before but the size and health of the deer left are much better.

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Jim,I know a guy that shot two doe and will try for a third in ML.That's fine and dandy but he signed the {close doe season} petition sent to the PGC.Go figure

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

You just can't make this stuff up. What the hell their thinking is beyoned me.

Greed and ego's replace common sense every time.

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Bawanajim:
well said! ya have to wonder what makes some of these guys tick??????????

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

I killed multiple doe this year and saw plenty in of deer and plenty of sign in every area where I hunted.The one thing I haven't seen for several years now is alot of hunters.What makes me tick is the fact that the vast majority of the habitat where I hunt has been devistated by the huge deer herd we had 10+ years ago.I have no guilt shooting deer in poor habitat or habitat that's finally starting to recover.

rifleman,it's not legalfor seniors to shoot spikes.Did you turn him in or the rest of the roadhunters?I eported a poacher this year and the WCO was on his way as he spoke to me on his cell phone.the case isn't closed yet but in the end,three guys will get nailed for multiple poached deer and multiple other violations.You have to get involved if you want to make a differance.The WCOthat has SGL 31 in his district is a good friend of mine.I'll guarantee you that he would have jumped right on those situations.

I haven't hunted SGL 31 in quite a few deer but I have several buddies that hunt that whole area religously.They did well this year as they always have.There's definately less deer but they still see plenty.My one buddy hunted the first morning near the O'donel bridge and saw 15 by 10:00am.

Ikill multiple deer every year as do most of my hunting buddies but we don't complain about a lack of deer.If we did,we sure wouldn't be killing two a piece.

RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
 

Doug although I don't agree with anyone shooting multiple does,I agree that we as local hunters are the ones that need make the proper choices in deer management.If you feel the need to shoot a doe either for food or herd management that is up to you.In all the rural areas I've hunted I've seen no where that the deer hear needs more reduction,stabilization maybe reduction no.
BUT what do we as hunters have for credibility when we over kill the very thing we strive to have strive and prosper.