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RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
I have to agree with the pole timber issue somewhat. We have a camp in Clinton county. They did a clear cut on the tops of 2 mtns about 20 years ago. The deer in there were numerous after the cutting.Now its so thick you can't get in there to hunt. I'm sure the deer are in there but impossible to hunt. The other mtns in the area are steep with mature timber. Logging these mountain sides would be next to impossible. The deer on these mtns are far an few between.
I hunt deer in north'd co. This area was logged off about 15 years ago. Its thick but huntable. After this last snowfall my friend and I split up and walked about 3 miles each and neither one of us ever cut a track let alone seen a deer. We went through known bedding areas, saddles, draws, everywhere we could think a deer might hide. Its frustrating |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
so basically those of you hunting state forestland for deer would be better off moving on.It's not going to get better anytime soon.You might find some decent hunting on sgl's in less populated areas of the state but I would suggest finding private land where acess is limited.I know it's not easy to find but a few friends and myself were lucky to gain some access to areas withgood deer numbers.
There's public land north and south with very few deer.Whether the reason is overharvests or habitat it's just not going to change.good-luck |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
so basically those of you hunting state forestland for deer would be better off moving on.It's not going to get better anytime soon.You might find some decent hunting on sgl's in less populated areas of the state but I would suggest finding private land where acess is limited.I know it's not easy to find but a few friends and myself were lucky to gain some access to areas with good deer numbers. There's public land north and south with very few deer.Whether the reason is overharvests or habitat it's just not going to change.good-luck |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
How much does hunting ground cost in off-the-beaten path parts of PA?
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RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
Mohuncher,this is a pretty complicated issue and you're 100% correct that poor soil conditions are the cause of the regeneration issues in some areas.I won't debate that but there's reams and reams of evidence that points to overabundant deer as the major cause in most areas.
DCNR has several experimental exclosuresand unfenced areas where they're doing research for the US forest service.Some have no treatments,some were burned,some were herbicided and some had a combination of all three.The results are amazing and everytime the regeneration is far better in the areas where the deer are fenced out.Now that the herd has been reduced in this area,they're finally able to cut some timber sales without having to fence them and new reneration is making it's way out of the blanket of ferns.I can show you an area that was clearcut in 1991(with the exception of several seed trees left)on SGL in Elk county.that clearcut turned into a field because the deer ate every bit of regeneration.Six years after it was cut,they erected several small exclosure.Today,you can't even walk through those exclosure and nothing was planted or treated in any way.Pretty impressive considering that clearcut was fenced 6 years after it was cut. |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
In Bradford county where i hunt property usually goes for $2000.00 to $3500 per acre.I could remember when it went for $500.00 an acre and we thought that was a lot of money.
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RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
Oh Dougie, I'm not debating you either! My bias opinion here was given when a fellow hunter complained about not seeing any deer at all. Then how other hunters first want to assume it because of his or her hunting skills. I stated what I have noticed in the area's that I hunt, and these "could or could not" be some of the reasons for their area's. That there may be a problem other than ones hunting desire or skills. I only hunt in one county, and probably covered little more half than of it over the past seven years.And for me to lay claim as to what is going on in another part of this state that I had never seen nor hunted in, would be very ignorant and presumptuous![/align]
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RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
ORIGINAL: Mohuncher That's why I started a new post about AR. ( everyone should take the time to read it)I have been doing a lot of research on this management tool.A couple of states that started before Pa. have noticeda decline now in antler growth. But there is also two main factors that play into Pa., hunting pressure, and NOT poor habitat, but poor soil conditions, this is why you have poor habitat, regardless of deer density! Hunters who have been complaining about no deer or small bucks. This is easy math, if the bucks are being taken soon as they have the legal point requirements, well,this is what you are going to get. Small to average size antlers.Also, if the area is being totally pounded in female harvests, this leaves very little to reseed. Low deer numbers. I also have a degree in biology and horticulture, but I will make this simple. I take it, at least a few of you fellow hunters plant a garden? Well, what do you do every year before you plant?, you prep the soil! If you don't, I think you know what is going to happen, anemic looking plants, the fruits small and low in vitamin and nutrition value. Back to the woods! Now, where the deer numbers have been kept low, you should see a forest floor regrowth happening, but! In poor soil conditions, the type of regrowth you get in poor soil conditions is worth crap as for nutrition value for deer. This will lead to low deer numbers even without heavy harvests. Poor food, not as healthy deer, poor reproduction! My point here is, AR and low deer numbers are not going to fix this type of area,it is going to takeburning, liming or clear cutting to help these areas. There is also areas from my experience that has good nutrition value habitat, but the deer density is down from over harvest. These can and should support more deer.Also Quality Deer Management is NOT or should be, a trophy tool. It is keeping numbers in line with the habitat. Summary: some area's are in good shape(deer density's) mostly private property. Some area's low(deer density's) could hold more, most public grounds. Some area's are in need ofupgrading the soil value, before we manage the deer. Last but not least," don't assume", just because a hunter is not seeing deer, he needs to improve his skills. The problem may be one of the other reasons! We need all the hunters we can get, from novice to expert. We also need to retool our deer management program,and it won't be easy. [/align] |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
DougE, where did I start resorting to childish games and started calling you names? The underlined qoutes were to clarify statements that I made. And if you are referring to as Dougie as name calling, it was ment as if you and I where standing face to face, I reached my hand out to shake your hand, with a (kidding oh Dougie) I'm not debating you either.
I hope you can except this?, if not, I guess that is fine too. Because I'm done on this subject. |
RE: A friendly deer camp debate...about PA regs
I'll accept that.It's tough to judge emotions over the internet.
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