This has turned into a good conversation! [/align][/align]My personal opinion......for what it is worth......I have already had contact with the FEDS and asked many questions, even some of what folks think are the ridiculous ones, but I figured what the heck I had their ear, I asked. In fact I asked 25, and they answered. I will link you to that.[/align][/align]http://www.trackincats.com/questionslash.php[/align][/align]My feeling about the study that is going on is nothing more than the pro cougar, eco freaks forcing our government agencies to do something or there will be lawsuits!! There is a Recovery Plandocument that says we agree to study and search for cougars every five years. This has not been done, until now. The people that want to prove the EASTERN COUGAR has survived are waiting for this.This would keep them or put them on an Endangered species list and become protected. The only panther (cougar) that is Federally protected is the Florida panther, which even that cat needs to de-listed since they brought Western cats in to repopulate( gene pool gone bad) They suffer a loss of habituate and are being hit by carsor killed by other panthers. Even though we know there is no way to PROVE and EASTERN cougar since there is NO DNA data base to compare to make a real and positiveanalysis.These are free roaming non -listed mountain lion sub species.[/align][/align]Some are asking the hunting laws for the mountain lion, cougar, puma. That is a great question and one of our goals. BUT what will it mean?? EACH STATE will have to set their laws and boundaries for this cat if proven they exist in that state. That means MONEY will have to be allotted in each budget for this animal. I would guess it would be a large sum. They willneed agents that are specially trained to deal with this animal. Special equipment would need to be purchased for this large predator.Then if you didhave a livestock or pet killed, would the state be responsible to pay you foryour loss?What about a human attack? The state of California now is budgeting for these losses. [/align][/align]I hope as the FEDS do their study they don't even step on the brakes......keep trucking! I do not want to see this held up for 20 years determining if this Eastern cat is here or not! I also think they need to be DE-listed inALL states from the Endangered Species list. Too much time and money is spent through our tax dollars on an animal that does not require this protection.Take thenumbers of mountain lionsin all the Western statesplus others that have proof the cat existand don't forget howmany are in cages, what's the total?? I don't think we are about to see this animal go extinct any time soon, if ever.[/align][/align]What we do needis safety precautions per state. We need a management plan if they are here. We need not to go to jail or pay fines if you have to protect your animals or selffrom this cat! Then if we start seeing too many of these predators, part of the management plan would be a controlled hunt by the government agencies or make it a Big Game animal. All we need in some "Common sense" [/align][/align]Cougardaville[/align][/align]

i just got off phone with williamsport gazzzette,this is lycoming co.in pa..

they are getting all kinds of calls on COUGARS in lycoming co..a trapper put article in paper yesterday and stated what the PGC said about yotes..he was told 20 years ago that yotes dont exist,he said they told him they were FERAL DOGS.. now, he sees cougar and they told him its a DOMESTIC PET..i wonder if its same person in the PGC that told me same and ground was too hard 15 years ago?

how does PGC knowthat thse cougars are domestic pets?

why is lycoming co. being flooded with cougar sighting?

what is being done by the PGC to investigate these sighting?

if these pets have 2 ft tails ,why are they being judged as being a bobcat?

lots of questions,i agree that some are sighting of bobcat,some pictures i saw were bobcats,but when you see a 2 ft tail behind a huge cat,that not a bobcat no matter what a track tells you!!

First of all the trapper is full of crap.I was on hand at least 4 times prior to 1986 when coyotes were killed in deer season.The PGC did not state 20 years ago that we had no coyotes so right off the bat,he's full of it.We still have snow.Any mountain lions being spotted would surely leave tracks.

Thank You Cougardaville, for trying to answer some of these questions and no doubt the best you could. As, we all know the pro cougar and eco freaks are the real problem for all of us. I also feel that back in the day that all the Eastern Cougars were wiped out that no way could it be possible to cover every nook and cranny this state has to offer. Did they survive it back then ? I am sure that no one really knows 100% of that answer. Could it be that some of the cougars seen here are from released/escaped cats again yes it could. Now for the one with three cubs could that also be possible for those to breed? I think yes it could but, how would they meet up with each other in such a large area, if they were released. Wouldn't they stay together if they were from released animals? Anyways thanks for answering my question.

Lets do some thinking here... Florida has about estimate of 50 panthers. The male panther has a home range of up to 400 miles and the female up to 100.

The Florida panther can not go southto migrate when the population increases and the fight over home range begins. The Florida panther can only move north at first. Now from what I have read about these cats they do not tolerate to much of an overlap with other males in their home range. It is very possible that with a 400 mile home range for a male cat that the eastern states can be part of a cats range.

What really comes into play now on this range is abundant of prey for these animals. I believe Pa. Was the richest state that was abundant prey for these cats. It was a paradise for ML. If we look at the map we see something that also atracts ML and is a natural home area for them. The Appalachian Mountains that runs pretty much up through the heart of Pa.. Mountains are a key to travel patterns of the ML.

I would have to say one way for sure to prove that we have cats here in the east is with ML in heat urine.Cats mark their territory with urine and the female also marks and the male searches for her.
Now if you was to get female ML in heat urine and make a mock scrape and place a camera watching it. If there is any MLs around they will come and investigate the markings. I believe this will be about the fastest way of knowing for sure. Set mock scrapes up and watch what happens. MLs come into heat all times of the year unlike other animals whos time are specific during the year. Maybe someone might want to try this approach to get positive proof or not?

This would be true also but,( I am not sure about PA ) up here those places you couldn't get to right now. To much snow to even attempt getting in there. I will mess around a bit but, do not expect to see anything around mid april to the first part of may if the road allows me to. As I love the brook trout fishing in there. It is on a set of ripps that is a long ways back in no mans land. The otters there will challenge you over there trout holes. The ripps name is black cat ripps and an island that the ripps go around is black cat island. They were named that for a reason a long time ago. You have to carry your canoe a mile and a half just to get to the stream it is on. So most folks wouldn't even think about going in there. As I said I do not expect to see anything but having a cd player doing a call may possibly bring something around to check out. But either way the trout in there are hugh native brookies so it would be fun anyways.

doug, that was not nice..he at least signed his name in paper..as for tracks,maybe they are seeing tracks..

lycoming co.is hot right now, sighting are abundant there in last 2 months..

most of sighting that were confirmed by me, ole sproul,were from june to dec..i believe each person that told me what they saw..

the people i talked to this was the time they saw a cougar..including me..

here is another one,MOST of sighting were in middle of dirt roads while driving,the cougar would stop, look back, then run, tail flapping..SAME as my sighting..
also MOST were in daylight ,just at sunrise or before dark..

i just got off the phone with a construction foream..he rides the beech creek rd to get to work..he hunts, is 62 years old ,been in woods all his life..he said he saw cougar 3 TIMES on that road,that is clinton/centre county..all sighting were 20 yards in front of his truck in the road and cougar had a long tail..

THERE IS YOUR CONFIRMED SIGHTING..if these are DOMESTIC CATS as pgc is saying, boy, they are really in some wild areas ..

doug, if you want to help, find out why most of sighting are from june /dec..maybe cougars leave and return in spring or maybe that timeframe is when most of us are in woods..

This really is getting too silly.
Over 20 years ago, The PennsylvaniaGame News published an article about coyotes being wolf hybrids in PA.
Coyotes have been known to habiuate the Northeast since the 1920's --- enough of the conspircay garbage already.
Now cougars are "snow birds" and go somewhere else for winter!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Cougardaville for a rational post. Too bad some others don't follow your lead.

north, did you read that cougar can roam 400 miles?could cougars move out of pa. in winters and back in spring?hell,i dont knowbut there seems to be some info,or maybe they are here and do to lack of people in woods with snow after jan,they are not seen..

i dont know..just a guess, no facts that cougars may leave and come back ..but then sighting that are happening,bigtime in lycoming co. throws some of that out window,at least in that county..

if we are not seeing tracks in snow, only answer is the cougars have left..or other reasons i cannot answer..

only i bit of advice, YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU THINK WE HAVE NOT SEEN COUGARS..trust me, they are here..

May I allso say about the snow and tracks. Are these the same people who don't agree with MLs in pennsylvania the same one who argues up and down that people don't go off the beaten path. The majority of the hunters don't see deer because they don't venture more than acouple hundred yards off the roads? Now if this is true what are the chances of more people seeing signs of these cats if they don't venture into the secluded areas where these cats could live?