RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

I don't know if any one has already said this or not i didn't read all the pages of post, but about the lack of deer remains. I know that here in VT you though a cow carcase out and within two months the yotes will have eaten almost all of the bones along with everythiing esle. My father shot a doe to years ago and left it for the night because it went into a think pine swamp and we couldn't find it, well by the next mornng only the front shoulders neck and head were left everything else inclueding most of the bones were gone.
Also squirrles eat the bones/antlers to get protein in fact alot of animals do. So don't say there should be deer bones and carcases laying around every where because they would last long. atleats in VT any way and NY isn't that much different

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

Great Analogy Planter :)

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

Pennsylvania does not have the unbroken expanse that lions would require. I think the "cool" and "wild" would wear off when your kid gets eaten.

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

Your chances of the kids being dragged off the porch are pretty slim. The school bus is a bigger risk. If we Ever have lions we will know when to start killing them...
Take the wild out of the woods and whats the point. A few extra deer is an easy trade to be blessed with a lion or two.
I am surprized that we consider ourselves sportsman and conservent but want sterile woodlands. FLA has a few lion but not really sure if there have been any attacks. Sure has been some gator trouble though. I guess I would have to compared lighting strikes to lion attacks before I worried to muchabout lion or bear. >>>>>>>>>>>Whack! !

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

I have to ask this.

Do you honestly feel that the PGC or the DCNR really wants solid proof that there are cougars living and breeding here in PA?

We all remember how the 'Spotted Owl" killed the timber industry years ago. (in Oregon I believe)

If cougars were discovered to actually exist, what would happen to the selling of timber here in PA.

Wouldn't there be big restrictions on timbering because we would be destroying the habitat of an endangered animal. Discovery might lead to many changes to protect this endangered cat. It happened with the spotted owl. I also heard something about the discovery of the "once thought extinct" Ivory Billed Woodpecker and some controvercy over that.

The cougars would need to be studied to get an idea of where they are and how many. Who would fund this? Wouldn't thebankrupt PGC be in charge of these studies? How can they afford this?

Lets face it. If the eastern cougar was discovered to be alive and well, the DCNR and PGC would lose lots of money. Why would they want it to be discovered? They have nothing to gain and lots to lose.

I believe this is why they don't get excited about investigating sightings.

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

that could be reason..
i have manyfield DCNR friends,not those ones in harrisburg that walk the talk and almost all of them saw COUGAR while working..

this is why i believe that most WCO,s have saw one,they are out there daily....

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

Posted by SamPAhunter on 6/21:

In fact my buddys uncle who is an AG teacher around here and my other friend and his dad were all at this camp. This game commision truck pulls up through their camp going up the mountain with a trailer on the back. And what is in the trailer you ask....a friggin Mt Lion thats what. The thing was snarlin and screamin. About half an hour latter the truck comes back down the mountain, trailer and all but nooo Lion in the back. The one thing they say is that the game commision releases Mt.lions to help control the deer populations.

I guarantee everyone that part of the post is incorrect and most likely a flat out lie. It could have been possible that a bear went by a camp in a bear trap but there most certainly was no mountain in any type of trailer by anyone from the Game Commission.

Since I know that part of the post is a lie it makes the entire suspect of being nothing more then a bunch of bologna.

Posted by sproulman on 6/21:

oh douge,loosen up...do you think that pgc is HONEST?
if they were they would be out talking to people and getting tracks....
i read that now some pgc are out meeting with people that saw one...thats good but

The Game Commission Officers have been investigating mountain lion reports for at least the past thirty years I have been an Officers. I have investigated hundreds of mountain lion and even Black Panther reports. Not one person has even been able to produce one spread of evidence, no pictures, no scat, and no evidence of a kill or of any tracks. The reason we aren’t getting tracks, as you think we would be if we were honest as you put it, is simply because there are no tracks to collect evidence of.

they denied there was coyotes 10 years ago

You Sir, are flat out full of horse puckey, we were putting pictures of coyotes not only seen but killed here in Pennsylvania from back in the 1930’s and 40’s all the way up the past couple of years. In the past thirty years, that I have been an Officer, I have never heard anyone affiliated with the Game Commission deny the presence of coyotes.

now they deny there are cougars...

We know there is a possibility of someone having a captive mountain lion escape but there is no evidence of any of them occurring in a wild state anywhere in Pennsylvania. Since there is no evidence of a mountain lion available anywhere in the state it is darn hard for me find any real credibility in the sighting reports. That is especially try since all of those that have come up with what they were sure were lion pictures have all turned out to be nothing more then bobcat pictures. People simply see the lighter coloring of the inside of the rear leg of the walking or running bobcat and think it is the tail instead of the leg. Every alleged mountain lion picture I have seen so far has been nothing more a case of misidentification.


if you think that most WCO did not see one, you are mistaken...
they are out in woods more than us,you can bet they saw one....

Once again I will tell you that I have never heard of any WCO every seeing one or any credible evidence of a mountain lion.

Yes, we certainly are out in the woods more then most people and you can bet if they really did exist we would see some evidence of them, but we aren’t seeing any evidence of their existence.

Post by Phil from Maine on 6/21:

All I am going to say is the state doesn't have to be the ones releasing them... Here one was caught being transported for a release by someone from one of those nature freaks that run around saying save the animals. He was caught and convicted of it, and was put away for a long while. Now this is only one person so how many others are out there trying to do the exact same thing?

There is always that possibility but it would be a serious crime in this state and I will assure everyone that should we find any evidence of anyone releasing any wildlife, other then the few species legal for stocking such as pheasants, in this state we will be all to happy to arrest them.

Post by Windwalker7 on 6/27:

Do you honestly feel that the PGC or the DCNR really wants solid proof that there are cougars living and breeding here in PA?

We all remember how the 'Spotted Owl" killed the timber industry years ago. (in Oregon I believe)

If cougars were discovered to actually exist, what would happen to the selling of timber here in PA.

Wouldn't there be big restrictions on timbering because we would be destroying the habitat of an endangered animal. Discovery might lead to many changes to protect this endangered cat. It happened with the spotted owl. I also heard something about the discovery of the "once thought extinct" Ivory Billed Woodpecker and some controvercy over that.

The cougars would need to be studied to get an idea of where they are and how many. Who would fund this? Wouldn't thebankrupt PGC be in charge of these studies? How can they afford this?

Lets face it. If the eastern cougar was discovered to be alive and well, the DCNR and PGC would lose lots of money. Why would they want it to be discovered? They have nothing to gain and lots to lose.

I believe this is why they don't get excited about investigating sightings.

I assure you there is no cover up or conspiracy to conceal the presence of mountain lions or any other species in the state.

All possible cases of mountain lions are investigated for any evidence. Most sighting don’t get reported to the Game Commission though until it is so far after the fact there is no chance of finding any evidence if any had existed. Most lion reports we get are a he said, she said, he saw or she saw type report that happens when they incidentally bump into us on the street or in the field long after the sighting.

There would be no reason to suspect any serious changes in the forestry practices even if mountain lions were discovered. The ever increasing presence of endangered and threatened species such as eagles and osprey haven’t seriously altered the forestry practices so I see no reason lions would either.

All of these conspiracy stories and theories are nothing more then a bunch of nonsense and what really have no credibility. If you find any credible evidence of a mountain lion in this state it will not be swept under a rug any where, in fact it will be fully investigated by both the Game Commission and probably even the Federal Fish and Wildlife Service.

R.S.Bodenhorn

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

Back in 1998,I personally called the PGC to in form them that my girlfriend had seen a ML earlier that morning on her way to work.

To be honest, at first, I did not believe her. Ithought it might possibly be a bobcat if a feline at all. I questioned her extensively and was finally convinced she saw what she said.

She said it was the size of a deer, was orange and had a long tail that curled up as it ran. She got mad when I suggested a coyote or a dog.

I called the PGC to ask if there were any other reports and immediately heard him laugh. He said if it were a cougar it was probably an escaped pet. He didn't ask for a precise location or any questions about the sighting. Just sounded uninterested and unbelieving.

I can't blame him for not believing because at first I didn't either. I ask my girlfrienda bunch of questions. He really acted unconcerned.

I didn't feel he was interested at all. Didn't ask for an exact location or anything.

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

What you are reporting is very likely. The dispatchers get so many reports of mountain lion sightings it is very common place but they also are trained to pull out any factual information that could be followed up on if the report has anything credible to substantiate the report.

The WCOs simply don’t have enough time to go out and personally interview everyone that thinks they saw a mountain lion but we do investigate everyone where the person says they have a picture, a track, scat, a kill or any evidence of any kind.

If someone tells you they saw a lion then they should also be able to show you some sign of it if there is any sign available. If they show you sign of a lion by all means secure that scene and get in touch with the Game Commission as soon as possible. But, I can assure you the dispatcher or WCO is going to be skeptical until you convince them you have something more then just a report that another person saw what they thought was a mountain lion.

That skepticism comes from decades of receiving those reports and sending officers out to investigate only to have the Officer report that either nothing was found or all of the evidence indicated something far different then what was reported. We have learned that most people as simply horrible at wildlife identification.

I have had dead mink reported as muskrats, mongoose and ferrets. I had a live raccoon reported as a coati-mundi (sp ?) and another reported to be a badger, road killed ground hogs reported as both beavers and bears. I had a guy bring a dead sharp-shin hawk to my house in a bag after it flew into his window, it was a ruffed grouse. I had an adult couple stop at my house to report an extremely large immature bald eagle blown out of a nest and along the highway after a wind storm; they claimed the bird was three feet tall with big yellow feet. When I followed them to the location all they could show me was a foot tall immature red-shoulder hawk that was learning to fly and even they couldn’t believe it had looked so large before they came to my house. We get so many reports where we proven the people were totally mistaken about what they thought they had seen it is pretty easy for us to be skeptical of reports about species for which we get hundreds of reports with no supporting evidence. That is especially true after many decades of following up on such reports without any evidence ever having been found.

But, if anyone finds any credible evidence of a mountain lion or finds any injured or distressed wildlife they should certainly report it and simply convince the person taking the report that the information is credible and should be investigated.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Possible Mt lion track
 

I can't beleive some of you guys are so paranoid that there might be a lion in your woods. Do you really think they would be a major impact on YOUR deer? I hunt because I like being out there. If your not getting a deer, you better look at the timeyou spend in the woods rather than at some other predator.
What would be the point of the game commission lying to you?. Lord knows here in MA their ideas are bizzare, but they have to cater to Non-hunters as well to some degree.
My understanding is that bears are the largest predator of fawns out there. Should we put a bounty on bears or just accept nature as it is given to us. Geez I would be pumped to see a lion and will never forget watching a Bobcat stalking a squirrel while I sat in my stand.Way cool and tops some of the deer I have shot in just plain excitement...
>>>>>>>>Whack!