POACHING IN PA.
11-13-2006, 12:17 PM
#11
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 159
RE: POACHING IN PA.
If we are to just discuss morailty in America, were screwed! Forget about hunters poaching or shooting 30 sec past the alloted time, or if someone is driving 70 or 90 in a 65 mph speed zone, it's just plain wrong. It seems every day on the news I hear about another politician, teacher or "priest/pastor" commiting child molestation, or stealing funds, etc. We as Americans just seem to rationalize the issue, rather then holding these individuals accountable. Lets see, Former President Clinton can have oral sex in the Oval Office and not be fired,however if I do, I will get fired. Lets see, Comptroller Hevisti here in NY can have a city paid employee drive his wife around for 3 years as we tax payers pay for it, and still gets re-elected?? It's like a pat on the back for a good job? If I have an employee drive my wife around on company time, I would be fired? The recent Pastor that resigned his position from the church due to doing drugs and having an affair with another man, the media interviews the members and they all seemed so forgiving and sorry for him? Talk about hoiler than thou, this guy preach to them for years on how to live the Christian life while he's out getting high and fudge packing it with some other guy?
Look, wrong is plan wrong. As long as we as an society accept it and just rationalize it so it doesn't seem soooo bad, then it's OK.
So, if a hunter shoots a deer 10 mintues after shooting light vs the guy at 3 am, both are just as wrong, unless you want to be one of those people who just want to rationalize as, well, it's ONLY 10 MINTUES, I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH HER, OR I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY WIFE TO DRIVE ON HER OWN?? Hello.....mackfly?
Look, wrong is plan wrong. As long as we as an society accept it and just rationalize it so it doesn't seem soooo bad, then it's OK.
So, if a hunter shoots a deer 10 mintues after shooting light vs the guy at 3 am, both are just as wrong, unless you want to be one of those people who just want to rationalize as, well, it's ONLY 10 MINTUES, I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH HER, OR I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY WIFE TO DRIVE ON HER OWN?? Hello.....mackfly?
11-13-2006, 01:01 PM
#12
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 50
RE: POACHING IN PA.
So should we assume that you would give up an easy shot on the biggest buck you ever saw just because it was 3 minutes passed legal shooting hours?? Have you ever crossed the street when the light wasn't green yet or crossed somewhere in between corner crossings? You are technically violating laws there also. I will agree that wrong is wrong, but in hunting things can't be so cut and dry. Example, wouldn't it be technically illegal to shoot at a deer you or someone else wounded again just after legal shooting hours in many states?? So would it "morally" be better to let it run off where it couldn't be retreived, OR finish it off right there with another shot? Now if someone calls the game warden and said they heard shooting after legal hours, who do you think he would believe?? It surely wouldn't be the hunter since he could easily get him into trouble in this scenario, yet the hunter probably did what was most humane and responsible in the sense that he ended the animals suffering and didn't have it go to waste.
11-13-2006, 01:53 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: POACHING IN PA.
if someone is driving 70 or 90 in a 65 mph speed zone, it's just plain wrong.
11-13-2006, 02:47 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: POACHING IN PA.
ORIGINAL: nyhunter863
The 30 seconds before legal shooting time is a great point. I don't care what anyone tells me. I don't think anyone would think twice about shooting a deer before what the "rules" say is legal shooting time if there was enough light to see and a deer presented a nice easy sure shot. Those who say they would pass the shot up are lying and trying to be holier than thou. Hunting can bring out such uglyness in people, NO real wonder why we get portrayed so poorly in the media!
The 30 seconds before legal shooting time is a great point. I don't care what anyone tells me. I don't think anyone would think twice about shooting a deer before what the "rules" say is legal shooting time if there was enough light to see and a deer presented a nice easy sure shot. Those who say they would pass the shot up are lying and trying to be holier than thou. Hunting can bring out such uglyness in people, NO real wonder why we get portrayed so poorly in the media!
it makes me mad that they always find a way around it..if people were not so lax on giving licenseto others to tag a deer a lot of them would be caught..
also as said above heard on radio, a wco was on here last month from pa. and stated he heard a group driving deer last year and they said,HEY, HERE COMES GAME WARDEN, GET THOSE TAGS DOWN HERE FOR THOSE DEER..
if this continues ,we will have nothing to hunt..this is why i am against the juniors shooting the little bucks as i feel the adults shoot most for them and kid tags it..
now, before i get jumped on ,its not all of the adults ,but a heck of a lot.. thats another topic ..
if WE dont police woods and watch this stuff, we are going to loose our hunting..i dont like doing this at ALL,when there was lots of deer,MOST overlooked it..
but, our future is now in trouble and we cant let these law breakers ruin our sport..
its close to that now and i think most of us dont want to see,say a nice buck go to POACHER because he says, oh , i have kids to feed, i always did it,no one will stop me..
where are the TAGS!!!!!!!!!!
11-13-2006, 03:13 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pa.
Posts: 554
RE: POACHING IN PA.
ORIGINAL: GR8RALLY
If we are to just discuss morailty in America, were screwed! Forget about hunters poaching or shooting 30 sec past the alloted time, or if someone is driving 70 or 90 in a 65 mph speed zone, it's just plain wrong. It seems every day on the news I hear about another politician, teacher or "priest/pastor" commiting child molestation, or stealing funds, etc. We as Americans just seem to rationalize the issue, rather then holding these individuals accountable. Lets see, Former President Clinton can have oral sex in the Oval Office and not be fired,however if I do, I will get fired. Lets see, Comptroller Hevisti here in NY can have a city paid employee drive his wife around for 3 years as we tax payers pay for it, and still gets re-elected?? It's like a pat on the back for a good job? If I have an employee drive my wife around on company time, I would be fired? The recent Pastor that resigned his position from the church due to doing drugs and having an affair with another man, the media interviews the members and they all seemed so forgiving and sorry for him? Talk about hoiler than thou, this guy preach to them for years on how to live the Christian life while he's out getting high and fudge packing it with some other guy?
Look, wrong is plan wrong. As long as we as an society accept it and just rationalize it so it doesn't seem soooo bad, then it's OK.
So, if a hunter shoots a deer 10 mintues after shooting light vs the guy at 3 am, both are just as wrong, unless you want to be one of those people who just want to rationalize as, well, it's ONLY 10 MINTUES, I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH HER, OR I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY WIFE TO DRIVE ON HER OWN?? Hello.....mackfly?
If we are to just discuss morailty in America, were screwed! Forget about hunters poaching or shooting 30 sec past the alloted time, or if someone is driving 70 or 90 in a 65 mph speed zone, it's just plain wrong. It seems every day on the news I hear about another politician, teacher or "priest/pastor" commiting child molestation, or stealing funds, etc. We as Americans just seem to rationalize the issue, rather then holding these individuals accountable. Lets see, Former President Clinton can have oral sex in the Oval Office and not be fired,however if I do, I will get fired. Lets see, Comptroller Hevisti here in NY can have a city paid employee drive his wife around for 3 years as we tax payers pay for it, and still gets re-elected?? It's like a pat on the back for a good job? If I have an employee drive my wife around on company time, I would be fired? The recent Pastor that resigned his position from the church due to doing drugs and having an affair with another man, the media interviews the members and they all seemed so forgiving and sorry for him? Talk about hoiler than thou, this guy preach to them for years on how to live the Christian life while he's out getting high and fudge packing it with some other guy?
Look, wrong is plan wrong. As long as we as an society accept it and just rationalize it so it doesn't seem soooo bad, then it's OK.
So, if a hunter shoots a deer 10 mintues after shooting light vs the guy at 3 am, both are just as wrong, unless you want to be one of those people who just want to rationalize as, well, it's ONLY 10 MINTUES, I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH HER, OR I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY WIFE TO DRIVE ON HER OWN?? Hello.....mackfly?
GR8 you hit the nail on the head.
11-13-2006, 05:31 PM
#16
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 159
RE: POACHING IN PA.
Sproulman, I understand what you are saying. My response is more focus on what you just said in response about poachers always finding a way around the law, except I took it a little further to include people in general who are lax in their accountablity, you know, place blame on others or the "circumstance" surrounding their actions. We as a society, seem to be drifting into a daily blur of gray, where no one wants to stand up and say, your wrong no matter how much you put a spin on it.
Would "I" shoot the biggest buck I ever seen three minutes after shooting hours, NO! Why would I want to risk my hunting previlages, lose the buck anywayand recieve excessive fines, not to mention the respect of my children? Have I ever ran a red light as an "adult", no, nor do I speed or drive while on the cell phone or put make up on while driving etc.
I had a similar debate last month with my wife about individuals who drink and drive and kill someone. Here comes the BS, they say I didn't mean to kill anyone, I just wanted to drive home drunk? If you decide to drink, don't drive. If you do, man up to murder, because if you kill my child, I'm not going to accept it was an accident. If you smoke, and then get lung cancer and are diagnos to die in 6 months, tough. You knew there was a chance it would happen, just like I would know there would be a chance I would get caught shooting a buck of a life time after shooting hours.
I know I'm harsh, but I don't make excuses for any wrong doings I may door make myself feel better about rationalizingthe action. If I steal 1,000 dollars or 1 Million dollars, I'm still a freaking thief. If you intentionally steal a candy bar from a store, your a thief in my book. Just as bad as the thief that stole the million dollars, he was just more clever then you, thats all.
Would "I" shoot the biggest buck I ever seen three minutes after shooting hours, NO! Why would I want to risk my hunting previlages, lose the buck anywayand recieve excessive fines, not to mention the respect of my children? Have I ever ran a red light as an "adult", no, nor do I speed or drive while on the cell phone or put make up on while driving etc.
I had a similar debate last month with my wife about individuals who drink and drive and kill someone. Here comes the BS, they say I didn't mean to kill anyone, I just wanted to drive home drunk? If you decide to drink, don't drive. If you do, man up to murder, because if you kill my child, I'm not going to accept it was an accident. If you smoke, and then get lung cancer and are diagnos to die in 6 months, tough. You knew there was a chance it would happen, just like I would know there would be a chance I would get caught shooting a buck of a life time after shooting hours.
I know I'm harsh, but I don't make excuses for any wrong doings I may door make myself feel better about rationalizingthe action. If I steal 1,000 dollars or 1 Million dollars, I'm still a freaking thief. If you intentionally steal a candy bar from a store, your a thief in my book. Just as bad as the thief that stole the million dollars, he was just more clever then you, thats all.
11-13-2006, 06:02 PM
#17
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 125
RE: POACHING IN PA.
GR8,
I agree with you 100%. Wrong is wrong. As ethical hunters we don't subscribe to the "ethic" so we won't get fined by the WCO, but because it's the right thing to do out of respect for the game, the sport of hunting, and ourselves.
Everyone has areas in their life where they diverge slightly. I've driven 10 mph over the posted limit on the highway, and J-walked. ShouldI get fined for these offences, then I will take my lumps like a man. In the outdoors, however, I find what I do there too important to me, and the responsibility too much to jepordize by acting impulsively.
Illegally taking a deer is in fact illegally taking a deer. Will the person tagging it with his wifes tag recieve the same punishment as the Jack-lighter? Probably not. Why do some murderers receive life sentences, while others only receive 25 years? Because some one has to look at the circumstances and decidethe punishment. Decide the punishment, not justify or excuse the action. Unfortunately, most poachers don't view any penalty less than jail time punishment.
So, what do we do? Where do we go from here? I know I'll continue to be on my best behavior in the outdoors, and keep hoping that the staties don't view my extra 10mph as too excessive.
I agree with you 100%. Wrong is wrong. As ethical hunters we don't subscribe to the "ethic" so we won't get fined by the WCO, but because it's the right thing to do out of respect for the game, the sport of hunting, and ourselves.
Everyone has areas in their life where they diverge slightly. I've driven 10 mph over the posted limit on the highway, and J-walked. ShouldI get fined for these offences, then I will take my lumps like a man. In the outdoors, however, I find what I do there too important to me, and the responsibility too much to jepordize by acting impulsively.
Illegally taking a deer is in fact illegally taking a deer. Will the person tagging it with his wifes tag recieve the same punishment as the Jack-lighter? Probably not. Why do some murderers receive life sentences, while others only receive 25 years? Because some one has to look at the circumstances and decidethe punishment. Decide the punishment, not justify or excuse the action. Unfortunately, most poachers don't view any penalty less than jail time punishment.
So, what do we do? Where do we go from here? I know I'll continue to be on my best behavior in the outdoors, and keep hoping that the staties don't view my extra 10mph as too excessive.
11-13-2006, 07:03 PM
#18
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 8
RE: POACHING IN PA.
buckslayer88 is one. He has a log book that he showed me of all his kills since he started hunting. I asked him why there was more than 1 year that 2 bucks were taken and he said, you pay attention to detail son, then laughed. I have turned a blind eye to him and figure he will be caught eventually.He is one that argued with me that if it isnt posted, he is allowed to hunt and wont listen to me so I will no longer hang out with him
11-13-2006, 08:19 PM
#19
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 159
RE: POACHING IN PA.
Just received notice today via email from the local DEC concerning two NJ scum were caught poaching. The article is from 11/8/06 in the Daily Star in Oneonta, NY.
http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2006/11/08/tgdeerpoaching16.html
http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2006/11/08/tgdeerpoaching16.html
11-14-2006, 01:51 AM
#20
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: POACHING IN PA.
[quote]ORIGINAL: Sylvan
So if I understand you correctly, in that the offense doesn't matter, you'd be o.k. with the same pushishment for all game violations. Really? Don't you think the jack lighterin my previous post should receive a more severe punishment than the guy who puts his wife's tag on a deer? I think the only intelligent way of doing things is to have the punishmentproportional to the severity of the crime.
[quote]
Now where did you get the idea that I didn't think the punishment should fit the crime? I agree that someone who poaches ten deer should get a more severe punishment than someone who poaches one. We simply disagree on whether it is "serious" or not when someone breaks the law one way as opposed to another.
I guess you didn't understand my post or you are just trying flame this. If you read it again you will see that I said that "encouraging hunters to turn other hunters in" can get out of hand. I didn't say that we should never do it. Certainly if we see a serious violation taking place any responsbible individualwould inform a WCO but I don't thinkit would be a good thing or even rational tobe running around reporting every minor infraction we see any more than we should be calling the state police every time we see someone going 70 in a65.
Point well taken. As I stated above, we disagree on what is a serious violation. I believe any illegal taking of a deer or turkey, or any game animal for that matter is a serious matter. You seem to see degrees of seriousness.
So if I understand you correctly, in that the offense doesn't matter, you'd be o.k. with the same pushishment for all game violations. Really? Don't you think the jack lighterin my previous post should receive a more severe punishment than the guy who puts his wife's tag on a deer? I think the only intelligent way of doing things is to have the punishmentproportional to the severity of the crime.
[quote]
Now where did you get the idea that I didn't think the punishment should fit the crime? I agree that someone who poaches ten deer should get a more severe punishment than someone who poaches one. We simply disagree on whether it is "serious" or not when someone breaks the law one way as opposed to another.
I guess you didn't understand my post or you are just trying flame this. If you read it again you will see that I said that "encouraging hunters to turn other hunters in" can get out of hand. I didn't say that we should never do it. Certainly if we see a serious violation taking place any responsbible individualwould inform a WCO but I don't thinkit would be a good thing or even rational tobe running around reporting every minor infraction we see any more than we should be calling the state police every time we see someone going 70 in a65.