Sylvan

Of course I do. All of our law is based on that concept. Even serious crime like murder has "degrees". We don't even treat all murder the same way and we shouldn't treat everybody who takes a deer illegally the same way either. The circumstances under which the infraction occurred matter. I don't believe as you do in that ALL illegal taking is a serious matter. I don't view shooting 30 seconds before legal shooting hours or the guy who puts his wifes tag on a deer as a serious matter. In fact I vew them as trivial matters. It's like jay walking or driving 56 in a 55. The state of NY must have thought using someone elses tag to be a pretty trivial matter too because a couple of years ago they made it legal to take up to 2 extra deer using somebody elses tag.


Sproulman,
I know I kind of pulled this thread a bit away from what you intended and I appologize for that. I couldn't help saying what was on my mind even though it was a little off topic. Again, sorry about that.

patrkyhntr

I do understand how you are thinking now. I still feel very strongly that one deer taken illegally takes one away that could possibly be hunted by an ethical hunter. As to degrees of seriousness, My opinion is that the only degrees would be in numbers of times an individual takes a deer or turkey illegally. If it is wrong, ethically, it is wrong. You may indulge in grey areas if you wish. I will not, and I won't hunt with people who bend the hunting regulations. Whether or not someone else does what you suggest and bends the law is an ethical question for them to answer, as it is for all of us.

Sylvan

Please don't misunderstand me! I haven't and wouldn't suggest that anybody bend or break any law. My only point was to take issue with those who argued that all violations should be treated the same.

Take care!

nyhunter863

You mentioned in another thread that you have hunted only 3 years or so. I assure you that one day down the road you will have something happen while hunting that might technically violate the rules. You have not been hunting long enough to be tested yet. Just give it some time and you will see what I mean.

GR8RALLY

I've been tested in life for 41 years now, hunting is no different. Again, it's about right and wrong, It seems we know where you may stand on the issue of ethic's. It's just that simple, let's not make it so complicated?

However, I will give you this, doing something by accident vs intentionally doing it are two different things. My comments are for those who intentionally do it, then try to put a spin on it by claiming the degree of the incident. "It's not that bad, just a little bad, so it's OK, Right?"

Sylvan

Wrong! Nobody said it's OK to break the law. THe point is that the circumstances matter with regard to how the infraction should be treated. Again,there is a significant difference betweenthe guy that shoots a deer 30 seconds after the close of shooting hoursand the guy who shoots a deer 8 hours later. Yes, both shot after legal shooting hours and both are in the wrong but it would simply be foolish to argue that both acts are equally wrong and should be punished the same way.

GR8RALLY

Sylvan, 30 sec vs 15 min vs 1 hour vs 3 hours later vs 3 am. I get it, slap on the wrist for 30 sec, $25 fine for 15 min, $100 for 1 hour etc, or whatever the punishment. Bottom line is then, how much is that buck, or your ethic's worth? Just place a dollar on it I guess. If a buck of a life time comes by 30 seconds after shooting hours and all it's going to cost me is a slap, I see how many hunters would do it. However, the hunter at 3 am wants that same buck of a life time and is willing to pay a little more, thats all. Your discussing punishments, I'm just discussing morals and the lack of them in our society because many like to live in the world of gray. I don't have the answers to what punishment one should receive for any type of violation. 30 seconds is too close to call, but someone shooting say 10 mintues after shooting hours, should be held just as accountable as the one at 3 am. I know I'm speeding if I drive 70 in a 65, why do I do it? Because the severity of the punishment to me isn't that great, just as the guy that drives 90 in a 65, the severity to him is not that great, but both knowling commit a crime/violation. Why not impose the same punishment? Those, that use to drive 70, will no longer think in degrees becausethey know it may betoo expensive or too sever of a punishment to take that risk. Hence, less speeder's. You bring up 30 seconds and 1 mph over limits to belittle the infaction. Like you alluded to, not too many people get tickets for going 1 mph over the speed limit, well because too many of us do it. LOL, just Like I'm sure too many hunters shoot deer 30 seconds after shooting hours. Too close to call. Your right Sylvan, and so I'm I. I'm just saying there's too many loop holes for the wrong doer's and our children see this and eventually some follow their peers. My motto, just don't do it and you don't have to worry about the consequence. Say NO to drugs and say NO to unethical hunting practices! LOL!

I think we/ I took too much of the post up on this matter, bottome line, poaching sucks! That I think you and I both agree on, Thanks.

Sylvan

Amen, and take care GR8RALLY! You've made some very good points!

nyhunter863

I really wish someone could do an honest poll of hunters on this. I would bet any money that a good majority don't know what the actual legal shooting time(sunup and sundown) is for any given day they hunt and never even bother to find out. Remember it changes everyday and it is not the same for every region of the state. If this issue were so important the legal hours would be listed on the hunting regulation booklet. You can see that it is not. In the many years I have hunted, I was given a sunup/sundown chart ONLY once when purchasing a license. This NOT shooting after legal hours is such a silly argument. Like we are supposed to believe that most hunters unload their weapons immediately when the clock hits the hour. You can argue the right and wrong of it all you want, but it don't happen in the VAST majority of cases. Only if everyone would be honest, this point would be proven very easily. So if the lack of morals in our society are at issue here, it would be easily proven that hunters lack them as much, if not more than the rest of society. And most are supposed to be moral republicans also![]

GR8RALLY

Thanks Sylvan, look forward to our next friendly debate. Hope we agree more than disagree!

nyhunter863, your right, morailty is such a silly thing. As for being Republican, Democrate, Independant, Green or Libertarian Party, etc. A hunters political party is not the issue. As for providing you a chart for "sunup or sundown", go google it rather than place a blame that you didn't know the times because they didn't furnish you one when you bought your license.

Just be a responsible hunter, which I'm sure you are.

Your right, all I'm asking is everyone to be honest that when they knowling and willingly violate a law, don't put a spin on it, you know, "didn't receive a chart"?. Wrong is wrong.

Please nyhunter863, as with Sylvan, no heart feeling's, but implieing I may be Republican did hurt.huh....