What you all think about this BS..
 

I don't know if this was disussed on here before or not...But I was going thru the PGC site and found this list...I myself find this to be BS and against our constitutional rights...I knew of these laws but still find anger from the thought of these...I think it's time for the PGC to end and form a new wildlife protection agency that doesn't give them this much power...
These powers should only be allowed on SGL and with a search warrant of private and personal property..This is unlawful by our constitution yet they are allowed to do this....How may I ask and who gives them this much power and why does the government allow this when they took oath to protect the constitution??? If I was not hunting and was driving down the road and was pulled over cause I was just there and they pulled this **** on me to search my truck or personals just for cause... All hell would break loose if they tried it.. I would have my lawyer sue them *******s for a stunt like this.... Boil my bloods just thinking of this....


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=478&q=151035#901

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I don't know if it's still in process, but there was a court case in the works about many of the "search and inspect"articles in the PA Game Code. Generally, a guy was contesting that WCOs should not have a greater authority than allowed to civic Law Enforcement officers.
Don't know the case name to look it up. My father knows the guy, I'll have to ask him what he has heard about it's progress.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

FYI:
section 905 "assulting an officer" (if im reading this correctly) says

"if you dont like the way your being treated by said officer,,you can blast a few of his teef out with your fist and only be charged with a misdemeanor:D

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I am reading it the same way you are rem700man. If you are doing something wrong just kick the crap out of the officer and then while he is laying beside the road bleeding go get rid of evidence and all they can prove is you beat the crap out of the officer and you get a misdemeanor for assult. I do not mean for anyone to do this just funny how stupid they got it wrote up. But I can tell you if they ever try to walk into my house or cabin or search myself or my car they better have a very good reason and a very good lawyer becuase I will nail some butt to the wall in the court system. I cant understand how they are giving they yahoos with a platic badge more power then real law enforcement personal they truely got to deal with the scum of the earth and put there lifes at risk daily. But as lazy as the PGC is I really doubt they will try any of this they don't even envestigate poaching when several people report the same properties having over50 deer skulls piled behind the houses and I know for a fact I reported 2 houses in Elk county and 2 other freinds of mine reported the same 2 houses with perfect directions to the piles of skulls and other deer bones. Well sooner or later people in charge are going to see that the PGC is crap and is ruining PA hunting for everyone unfortanlt we hunters are the 1's that got to pay the bills for these fools with our hard earned money and our natural resources they are destroying.

Trytan

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Maybe they were too busy looking for the mountain lion that you claimed to have dragged off the road.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Nope they found it but they are to busy Destroying PA to give a rats crap about poachers or anything else. Actually wouldn't be surprised if the WCO knows the poachers personaly and ask them to do it to whip out all the does in in the 2G area since your good buddy who claims to be a WCO Dick I believe was his name (boy did his parents ever see the future) claimed to know everyone in Lake City, Elk county. Turn onto El Rancho road in lake city. The road that breaks down on the same side as the cematery and take about a100 yrd walk behind the houses you will find alot of skulls and bones. That is unless your buddy already let his "Friends" know they been descovered and help bury/remove them. I found them when I got turned around down in the big hollow right before you get into Forest county and happened to come out way up there by accident. I was courous so I decided to take a stroll behind some of the other cabins/houses in the areas and what did I find another pile of bones behind the house across the street. But I sure your buddy Dick as already dealt with this...lol PGC wants to kill all does I guess they are hiring poachers to do it for them now since they sure are not stopping them anymore.

Trytan

You and your buddy can say anything you want I know what i seen that day and i know what I pulled off the road and I never expected any member of the PGC to step up and say it now. they been coveringstuff upso long it is second nature to them.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Really? From my experience, they don't even do that.

I also can attest to the fact that when poaching is reported, they ask a few questions over the phone and that's about it.

I know a farmer that had a problem with poachers riding in his fields with a spotlite shooting at deer. This farmer watched them several consecutive nites in a row. He called the PGC each time asking them to come out to his property and stake it out. They wouldn't.

I have a good friend that witnessed deer being poached and called the PGC, gave them the info and the person's name and address. They didn't respond.


It seems to me, the PGC is more worried about who signed their hunting license and who didn't.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

right on smokeman, thats some grade A BS right there, violation of our constotutional rights is right!! that makes me sick



-Travis-

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Windwalker,Do you have any idea how big of an area each WCO has to patrol?Iwish more could be done to combat poaching but it's often hard for them to be at the scene.I've calledour local WCO a few times and he's always responded.I know for a fact that he just busted a guy that was seen hauling a deer on his atvout of season.He was on the scene but by the time he got there,it was too late.He didn't know the guy's identity but a year later,his girlfriend ratted him out and he was busted.

Trytan,No one with an ounce of common sense will believe that you actually dragged a mountain lion off the road.Sorry I don't buy it and Iimagine that anyone with three working brain cells doesn't either.Your story is a crock.Furthermore,there isn't a WCO in the state that wouldn't follow up on a tipwhere someone had that kind of evidence just sitting there.I know for a fact that R.S.B would be all over that like buzard on a gut-wagon.To question his integrity like like is completely out of line.Yep,the PGC is hiring poachers now.The B.S.that some of you crybabies come up with in ridiculous.Tell me who did you speak with?Was a WCO or just a dispatcher?

I wonder why someone would be dumb enough to leave 50 poached skulls behind their house?

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Well guys. About 5 yrs. ago I was driving down a dirt road during doe season. I was just coming back from a business seminar and was dressed in a full blown dress suit. I was driving slowly and "was" watching for deer when I came around the bend and saw a PGC get out of a truck to check these two hunters coming out of the woods. They had the road blocked so I was setting there when the other PGC guy got out and waved me around. I had my hunting clothes in the back seat and as I was going around the guys slaps the roof of my car and yells stop! I thought I ran somebody over so I stopped and rolled down my window. He came up and told me to get out of my car and show me the gun that was "hidden" under my hunting clothes? I said "Look at me, do I look like I've been hunting?" He blocked the road while the other one called for back up because I was being rowdy! I let them look at my clothes and refused to open the trunk and they wrote me a warning citation for no cooperating.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

The bad part is, all they had to do was show up the next nite and stake out this farmer's property. These poachers were coming every nite and driving in the fields, spotting and shooting. I'm sure the PGC was busy but they would have had a good chance of catching these guys.

I realize there is little the PGC can do, after the fact, and they almost have to catch a poacher redhanded, but they had a chance to catch these guys and didn't even bother to come investigate.

This farmer was a good friend of my father's and passed away some time ago. He was enrolled in something with the PGC,where he opened his land to hunting, had the Game Commission signs, allowed pheasant stockings, got a subscription to Game News, etc... After this poaching thing and the PGC not responding, he was PO'd. He posted his land after that. I was actually glad, because he still let us hunt.

I actually got my license checked and questioned for being in the woods with a video camera. This was back when VHS cameras were first put on the market. I bought one and took it out to get some pictures of deer. I had already gotton one with a bow earlier in the season but wanted to still enjoy the outdoors by using a camera. The two deputies acted like I was breaking the law when they saw the camera.I had to hand it to them while they started pushing buttons trrying to eject the tape. Why? I have no idea, why they needed to inspect the camera. Why did I have to show ID and let them inspect my license. I wasn't hunting with a weapon. By the way, this was on private land also.

Its a good thing I was wearing my own jacket with my license on it and not my buddy's or father's. It shouldn't have mattered whose license I had on my back, just to take pictures.

I buddy of mine had an episode with a deputy PGC one time that was funny.

Him and a few friends were hunting doves on his farm. They had two trucks parked in a field under a big oak tree. They were standing around the trucks shooting at doves as they'd fly by. ( lots of doves on his farm)

As they were standing there, a PGC vehicle came ripping down their 1/4 mile long driveway and whipped it up to their trucks. He jumped out and started giving an attitude right away. First he checked everyone's license. All were legit. He then started yelling about them being parked in the field and started writing them up. The hunters just looked at each other with a sorta smile. When he got to my buddy, he ask where he lived. My buddy pointed across the field to his house. The deputy ask if he owned the field they were parked in. My buddy let him know that he certainly did.

It was my buddy's turn now. He flew into that deputy, asking who he thought he was ripping down his driveway and driving in his field acting like a smarta$$. He told him, if he would of just ask he would have been informed that he was the owner of the property and all was well, but in stead he wanted to jump out of his PGC and make a fool out of himself. The deputy appologized and left.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I know of no other state where their Fish and Game Dept. has such a bad reputation or is as hated by its hunters. They certainly deserve the bad rep.

I've never been arrested or ever paid any fines for breaking the law. I am an ethical hunter.

I have a very limited experience with the PGC, but what experiences I've had weren't good. They always treat everyone like a criminal.
I've hunted in West Virginia for many years and had the oppertunity to talk to their Game officials several times. I walked away very impressed at how proffessional they were. They would shake you hand and introduce themselves. They always seem interested in how your hunt is going and what you've been seeing. Not here in PA. You're guilty until proven innocent in the PGC's mind.

I have a buddy that has been a police officer for about 18 years. He did work in PA for a while but now is a Delaware State Trooper.

Once in a while they would get involved in helping out the PGC with something and always said how arrogant they were to work with. He even said that most police officers don't hold the PGC in very high regard. They seem to throw their weight around in a manner that they would get in big trouble for.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I personally know the three WCO's that have districts surroundingthe area where I live.I know for a fact that these guys all take their jobs very seriously and go way beyond working a 40 hour week.Ihave a hard time believing any of them would be arrogant or not respond to a hot tip,consisting of 50 deer skulls.That's a crock.Are they perfect?No.Has the PGC made mistakes?Sure,but they're the best friends we have.It's a shame most don' t realize it.Eventually they'll regret it.

I had a less than pleasant experience with a deputyback in the 90's in Wyoming county.The guy was a pompous jerk but I know better than to label all law enforcement officers in that manner.Besides,I doubt he lasted very long.

It's funny how someone can label another person without meeting them.I used to be on the same side of the fence with alot of the complainers on here.I thought this was all a big conspiracy to ruin hunting.I argued with R.S.B all the time.I know of an area near my house with excellent regeneration,despite having a large deer herd.R.S.B took time out of his day to check it out.I also had three other foresters take a ride and give me their opinion.After hearing what they had to say,it started to make sense.Last year R.S.B took a whole saturday out of his day to show me all around his district.he also drove 45 minutes to speak to our sportsman's club at 9:00pm on night.The man puts more into that job than anyone could imagine.He hosts habitat tours and does alot of it on his own dime,providing lunch and drinks.The sportsman of this state couldn't ask for a better guy to educate the public and protectthe resources.For someone to question his intergrity without knowing him is slanderous.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Maybe your buddy is a nice guy but the WCO's I've delt with weren't.

Like I said, I was out with a video camera and had two deputys treating me like I was breaking the law. I was young back then and just purchased that expensive camera. It was hard to stand there and watch them pushing all the buttons, not knowing what they were doing. I felt they had no right to do that.

I have to admit, that experience left and bad taste in my mouth ever since.

I had produce ID and let them look at my license. I could have been wearing my father's jacket and it should not of mattered whose license was on my back. Heck, I didn't even need a license to take pictures.

There are many stories I have heard by trusted friends that are similar.

When I was 12 and just started hunting, we had a family friend that had a brother that was a Deputy WCO. He would hunt with us sometimes and tell us stories.

Must be something about being a WCO, because he was full of himself. Looking back now, I can see that he wasn't that " nice guy".

He enjoyed intimidating people and accussing them of something they didn't do

I watched him when I was pheasant hunting with his brother one time. He made a car pull over and harrassed the guys inside. They weren't doing anything wrong and he was just showing off for his brother and us. Even then, at 12 years old, I knew it wasn't right.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Had something similar happen when I was with my brother and a friend of his out at the local range on the gamelands back in Late 90. The WCO went right into the "what are you doing? You hunting?" routine. Saw camo UTs in my brothers truck, etc, etc. Gave us a hard time. THEN when he started asking if we had any firearms concealed on us, like it was something wrong considering we all had some form of CCW permit, that WCO reallyticked off my brothers buddy. My brothers friend calmly told him "not that it is any of your busines, but yes I am carrying". Oh that WCO got all jumpy and started up even worse, he was going to write us up for it and everything, then Mike (buddy) produced his ID/Badge. See the WCOs problem was that Mike is a State Trooper, and then HE proceeded to dress that WCO down.ThenMike started onhis problem with those camies and stuff in the truck, which were a set of my brothers BDUs and gear since he was in on his leave from Desert Sheild and hadn't taken them out of the truck yet since he just got back the day before.
You'd think that that would be enough to put some sense into that WCO, but no, he still had to make a stink about"doing my job" and "you aren't exempt". Iheard that Mike made a bit of a deal about it then he got back to the Troop HQ.

I'm sure there are some WCOs that are great and resonablepeople, but there are way TOO many that are plainjacka$$es.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I've known a few deputies over the years that were total clowns.However,the WCO's thatI know around here work hard and take their jobs very seriously.Iwas at meeting with one last night.We're dmap'ing a bunch of property and he showed up to clarify a few things.He even offered to help us hang some signs.He didn't act like a hard ass or arrogant at all.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Well with their fiancial problems,You can bet more people will be getting harrassed in order to give them a fine to increase their revenue...I am sure if you looked over the last few years if there is a site,You would see an increase of fines over these years...They have to get the money from somewhere....

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

The Deputy was lucky, they could have had him arrested.


Deputy stories most always tend to have some humor. Every year when I go to camp, I get a friend of mine (that bought two of Grandad's farms) to re-tell the story of him, his cousin,andone of hisbull's (with deer guts on his horns) chasing Fat George the Deputy !!

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I reported poaching last year,actually it was illegal baiting.I found out through a guy who hunts on my property that the WCO was investigating and rode a mountain bike back to the area of the baiting.The WCO even asked the hunter if he had permission to hunt the land which I appreciated.So in this case I know the WCO did follow up on my report.There is also poaching in this place done by the same asses that were baiting.
I do know that WCO's have too large of an area to patrol.I wish we had more.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

First off I will say right up front that tryran74’s story about calling the Game Commission about finding any dead deer carcasses, let alone a large number of carcasses, is just another make believe story that never happened. If he did find anything he never reported it, just like he never reported a dead mountain lion or helped pull one off the road.

I don’t know where you guys are coming up with these stories but I suspect that is just what the majority of them are, stories. I have had people telling me the stories about me harassing them and arresting them, while I was in civilian clothes and they didn’t know who they were talking too. They always tell the story to make it out that I was the bad guy and they were the hero that really told that SOB a thing or two. Then when they find out that the guy they are talking about in the story is the guy they are talking too the story always changes to, "well that is what they heard happened to a friend of theirs". In other words they had just made up a totally “bull corn” lie to make it sound like the Game Warden was an a$$ and they were a hero. Many of the stories that get told about Game Wardens are told by a person that never even had an encounter with the Officer and the ones that did have an encounter don’t tell the real story, just their fairy-tail version of it.

Now for some facts about the methods in which this states Game Wardens and their Deputies deal with the public and with citations and warnings.

In the first 11 months of 2004 (the legal updates training manual that provides those annual statistics is printed before December can be included) there were 5,971 charges filed and 9,063 warnings issued. Of those charged 95% either pled or were found guilty by the court. A total of $1,035,160.00 was issued in fines by the courts.

That is over 15,000 law enforcement contacts were a person was in violation of the law and dealt with by a Game Commission Officer yet for the entire year of 2004.

In the first 11 months of 2005 WCOS and Deputies issued 6,354 citation and 7,249 warnings. Once again that was a 95% conviction rate with $1,097,460.25 in fines.

For last year I also have the number of citizen complaints that filed against Game Commission. During that time there were a total of nine complaints submitted. Three were still under investigation with no conclusion at the time the information was released. Of the six remaining, only one was sustained with the Officer having acted in appropriately. One didn’t have enough facts to establish one way or the other and in the remaining four it was found that the Officer had been exonerated of any wrong doing.

Now I throw out a challenge to all of you. Find one other law enforcement agency in this state, or for that matter any other state, with as good of record per law enforcement contact where people are actually getting investigated and charged with a crime.

If you can find one be sure to come here and tell us all about it, but I don’t think you will find any with as good a record.

The reason we have so few complaints is because we have a longer and more intense training period then any other law enforcement agency in the state. We have updated legal training, for both WCOs and Deputies every year, which covers changes in legal methods and the most recent court opinions on legal procedures. We have regular and highly structured training for all of our officers, including the deputies and that even includes mandatory verbal communications training.

As for all of the horror stories about the abuse of power, that too is just so much BS; we live by the exact same constitutional limitations that every other law enforcement officer in this state lives by. We have no more power then any other law enforcement officer. The only real problem is the one of the public perception that we aren’t real law enforcement officers, but that too is wrong.

In my years as a WCO I have arrested two murders, two fugitives from justice, wanted for crimes in other states and two armed robbers, all while I was performing my duties of apprehending people violating the game laws. I have drawn my firearm to prevent being shot on several occasions. I have had a couple of guys that tried to kick my butt and all of them have ended up in handcuffs and under arrest within a matter of minutes.

I take it all very seriously and do the best I can at both protecting our resources and even our public when the need arises. I also work hard at trying to educate people about good wildlife management principles and the responsibilities of Game Wardens.

Now, how about some of you telling us about what you have done for the betterment of the resources, society or for that matter for the betterment of anything besides yourself.

There is a quote that kind of stands out as applicable, yet I don’t know you to credit with the quote. It goes something like this, “All that is required for evil to rule, is that good men do nothing.”

What have you done in the face of evil or of crime? Are you really a good man if you do nothing in the face of evil or crime?

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Let me tell you, that I did get harrassed for taking a camera into the woods to film deer. Those two guys had no reason to do anything once they saw I had no weapon only a camera.

This happened around 1988 in Greene Co. near Graysville.

I did witness a deputy WCO harrass 4 hunters in a vehicle, during pheasant season, for doing nothing. He was just showing off for his brother, my father, myself and a friend.


No BS. It happened.

As for my buddy dove hunting, I arrived just after it happened and they were all talking and laughing about it. So yeah, this story is second hand but I have no reason not to believe it.

I guess just dismissing it as BS would be an easy way out.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Do you think that maybe the conviction rate is so high because people would rather pay a fine for a couple hundred dollars than hire an attorney and fight it? I do.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

ok Mister Dick Bodenhorn at what point did I say carcasses? I said and I will state again it was a pile of skulls and other bones all from deer. Your such a joke it isn't even funny. Lets all face it guys everything anyone says is wrong and MR WCO is always right. Actually I am coming up to Elk county maybe we should get together and I will walk you to right where the bones "where" I am certain by now you already let everyone know about this in the area and already cleared the evidence. Since you stated before that you are freinds with everyon in the Lake City area and know every pet they own. Your whole post is such a joke I don't know where to start "people telling me a story about myself while I wear cilvian cloths" lol You must think everyone is as dumb as you. Listen up people the WCO are all superman and do more good for the world then all other law enforcement againsies combined We are all GODS and are above you all... Thats how you sound dude. Heck why we sending soldiers over seas lets just send the PGC they will end the war in a day. But the bottom line Dick is if you want to call myself a lier and everyone else that posted on this thread except your little kiss up DougE. Since none of us know what we are talking about except you and you know it ALL maybe we shouldn't post anythign and only read what you got to say...lol Actually this is a free country and I will keep telling the trueth and you keep making BS excuses and making yourself look more like a idiot.

Trytan

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Good posts R.S.B. and DougE. I always look forward to what you guys have to say.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Certainly you should let me know the next time you are in Elk County. I certainly do want to see where these deer bones, which incidentally must have come from carcasses, were. If there is any indication of illegal deer killing going on I want to know about it.

Incidentally I don’t doubt for a minute that you did find a bunch of illegal deer carcasses, it is going on some where every year. About two years ago it was going on in the Lake City area, until I finally got enough evidence to arrest the guys involved. They are still on revocation as a matter of fact. Funny thing is I know both people that called with any information concerning the night shooting and I never heard anything from you about any illegal activity. If you had I would still have a copy of the incident in my file.

Now the ball is in your court, again. Are you man enough to call and show me the evidence of these kills you are talking about? I will still do what I can with it even though you are probably years too late reporting it.

Oh, and incidentally since you brought up the war efforts; we do have several WCOs and Deputies fighting in the wars of foreign soil to keep you safe. I would gladly have served yet another tour if I were a few years younger even though I already have an honorable discharge from more then thirty years ago. I have two sons that have already served one or more tours in this current war though and both will be going back over yet again. What have you done for the good of our country and our freedoms?

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Oh, way of course in the scheme of things here. Since all that bitching has started between hunters and WCO, I have a few pennies for your pockets.

As with police officers you have good people and bad ones. Mr.Bodenhorn ,the problem I have with your post is you have a typical narrow mind that seems to plague the PGC. It is almost, dare I say Paris Island like?
I have some friends who have been in the PGC for many years. They would be the first to step up and say there are someloose cannons playing Ranger Rick. What is sad is that those few are in fact few and far between.

Why is it that WCO or Deputy will almost instantly dicount any story that seems strange? Lets use the Mountain Lion as an example. These stories seem to increase daily. Some sources that have told me on their witnessing would be dead on balls reliable. Some I don't know very well so I can't say the same.
Did I myself see a Mountain Lion? No. Do I take these reliable sources, people of hunting background for decades, people of realism, and discount what they say? NO. Do I believe it 100 percent? No! It is possible. BTW, these people also hunt BOBCATS and can seperate the two. PGC response often times is that it being a BOBCAT or Domestic CAT. Anything but the sheer possibility that it might be a real CAT! Arrogance anyone?
I use MT. LION as the example seeing how it has become a hot topic in this state.

Lets move to the Deer population issue. The bonus tag started around 1988 or 1987. A couple years later I toldPGC and WCO alike, that you are going to have a real problem in this state with the Deer population.What was my response? "How can you know more than we do?" More arrogance.

I was driving my Jeep on an access road to SGL's yesterday and came upon an old man sitting on his tail gate. We talked for a while about how things used to be. "You dont see any Deer up here anymore. " he also said " I don't know about the game commission." Later I learned his age to be of 78. I bring his age into it because he told me he hasn't hunted for the last 6 years. When I asked why, he said do you ever go fishing in a mud puddle? Want to know what this old fella was doing? Cutting firewood by himself. An excercise displaying the capability of this guy to still have the ability to hunt. So let me guess, he doesnt want to hunt for some other wordly reason. Anything but the one given.

Challenge me to something, I dare and welcome you to.

You might be a stand up guy. You might be one of the good ones. You mention extensive training. Is being Naive one of the courses? That is something you ALL SEEM TO SPECIALIZE IN! Atleast in some capacity.

BTW, say what you want about people and their stories, but that hatred toward the PGC didn't happen from Big Bang. You think people are born today and they choose to hate the PGC?

Hunters are and have been fed up with all the lying, arrogance, power trippingover the years. It has caught up with PGC.

Here is a tip for the PGC. Want to get the youth interested again in hunting? Hit the schools. Send flyers home. Paper is cheap. Be creative. WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ENOUGH. I have a son who will be 13 and 9 of his ten friends do not hunt. THAT IS YOUR FAULT!!!Some of it is anti-gun has increased but so many people in their thirties and forties, money spenders in this state say they dont hunt anymore. I don't ask why anymore. Always the same answer.

Making a Junior license $6.00 was dumb. Last time I checked an adult has to take the Junior hunting. You raise the Adult license and you decrease the Junior. Any adult who was on the fence about hunting before that increase I bet he was loving you then.

Funny thing is, the rate you all are going, the hunter/deer ratio willbe back in order before too long.
Then again when that happens, hunting license will be $200 becausethe PGC**** where it eats. Go firgure.

One more thing boys,
you have seeneverything in the woods when you find a Shot up body that was half burned from drug deal gone bad. On SGL none the less.

WCO, did I really find that body or was it a person like thing?

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I could pick apart your comments' if I wanted to...If the PGC wants to survive,Show respect to the constittion....Have respect for all you see...Don't try to show authority to people as in the past....I know the PGC is hurting for money...Do not lose moral respect from the community...What the PGC needs and should do is relax and not worry...

When you support the people the people will suport you...

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

R.S.B. The quote
"All that is required for evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing." --was by Edmund Burke
I use it often.
I think your reason for all the "bad" WCO was pretty good.
Another quote Ihave been using may fit:

"... still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."--Simon and Garfunkel


300smbswm said:
"Here is a tip for the PGC. Want to get the youth interested again in hunting? Hit the schools. Send flyers home. Paper is cheap. Be creative. WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ENOUGH. I have a son who will be 13 and 9 of his ten friends do not hunt. THAT IS YOUR FAULT!!!"

You have no idea the PR / educational work the WCO's do. They do go to schools. In talking over lunch with WCO Fife (Monroeville) I was amazed at what she gets accomplished in a week. Including visiting schools as you suggested. Even taking a trapped bear to school to show them how it was processed. The kids loved it.

Your kids friends do not hunt and it is the PGC's fault??:(
You haven't a clue. Where do you get this from?

Sorry for your experiences. But in my experience, the WCO's, DWCO's and LCO's I have met, theydo an outstanding job with there limited resources/budget. Yes, I have heard a lot of grousing even rants similar to yours, but I am discerning enough to know that often it is because they didn't like "being spanked." Other times it is just a matter of the story getting twisted and blown out of proportion as the story is told and retold.

ChuckS

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Your response is just as ignorant and narrow as a PGC member. Did I say all of them are crooked? NO. Did I say that there are good ones and bad ones? I do believe I did.

The lack of youth hunters is much their fault. See, YOU are being naive here. For every 1 school they visit, there are another 15 schools they don't. With much more anit-gun stance by parents the PGC could no longer be passive and arrogant. When I was a kid, it went like this. Hunt, Drive, 18(adult) 21 then oh **** time is flying. They took for granted the fact that8 out of ten kids hunted. Now the number is the same..it is just who doesnt hunt. 8 out of ten. Don't forget all the adults they upset who will not take their kids hunting. Ask a lot of 30-50 year old adults if they hunt. I guarantee you that the number one answer is this, "I used to hunt."Ask them ten years ago, and the number one answer was HELL YEAH I HUNT!

I am sure the one you speak of does a good job. I am not so ignorant if you READ ALL MY POST to this fact. PGC problem is much like yours in that of tunnel vision. I dont hate the PGC much like some but do you really think they just automatically starting disliking the PGC for the hell of it?

I think they have a tough job. Yes I think they have a huge territory.

Love how you use the term spanked. Again all these people who dislike the PGC must have been slapped on the wrist before. WRONG. again..WRONG.

Typical ignorant naive answer. How about all the grandfathers, fathers, Grand mothers, mothers who have never been arrested or warned for any violation...how about those people who are fed up with the PGC? They have an influence on their family members from their negative opinions of the PGC.

"Malicious lies" being "spanked"..among others are always the excuses by the PGC for being disliked.

How about this.. get off your throne and face the fact that your ideals and Law Enforcement practice...collectivley are far from perfect. Which makes you no different than any other law or enforcing body in this state or country.
Unlike the PGC, most know they are far from perfect.

Do you realize how many hunters the PGC would gain the repect back from ifthey all said collectivley, we have made some major mistakes over the last 20 plus years. We intend to fix these problems ASAP.

People forgive the liar who confesses a lot faster than then one who keeps lying.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Wow. Chill dude, you're going to blow a gasket. Did I touch a nerve?

The lack of hunters is much there fault?? If you reeally want them to fight against the antis, promote hunting, visit EVERY school, etc....you should be supporting the PGC not ranting against them. How many kids friends (and their parents) have you convinced/helped to begin/return tohunting?
The PGC didn't ruin hunting and you know it. Or you should know it. Habitat--the PGC owns/controls a fraction of the PA woods and fields. Farming practices have changed. Even peoples life styles have changed. The PGC is responsible for 200+ animals. Not just deer or pheasant or rabbits. On and on but you're not listening are you. "... still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."--Simon and Garfunkel

"and all these people who dislike the PGC"...you should hang around a better crowd. That's not my experience.

Oh and thanks for the ignorant, naive,and narrow minded comments. I'll consider the source.

Cheers,
ChuckS

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I still wonder why the PGC always uses the excuse of too much territory to patrol. Surely PA is not the biggest state in the country. I don't hearother Game depts. complaining.


Wow! The PGC has to manage 200 plus animals. How many are game animals?

Let's look at some of the western states. They have all kinds of game animals. Big Game like moose, elk, sheep, bear, pronghorns, Mule deer, whitetails, bison, mt.lion, and I believe mt. goat.

And you think the PGC has their hands full?


Still I ask, why is the PGC the only state that has its hunters hating them this bad?

Why don't we see this in other states?

Is there something in the water, here, that makes hunters spread lies and make up stories about the PGC?

Maybe the PGC can blame it on the water?

Remember years ago when the PGC was saying that deer numbers were up and hunters weren't going off of the road far enough to see them?

Well Gee! Now they admit that maybe deer numbers are down And we need to thin them down more for proper carrying capacity.

Who was spreading lies back then?

Hunters were reporting few deer and the PGC was saying the deer were there but off the road farther.

Its no wonder they have problems.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Are the others funded almost exclusively by hunting dollars? How many officers/sqmile do the others state cover? Should make for an interesting comparison.



Are you saying game animals are more important?


What's their wco/sqmile? Do they have ~1 million hunters?



I don't think it is unique to PA.

ChuckS

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

All animals are important. I believe that game animals are the PGC's primary concern.

I'm sure other state's wildlife agencies also do much to help their nongame species.

I too would like to know wco/sqmile in those western states. I'd tend to believe that PA has more WCO's and deputys. Especially when you look at those hugeareas of roadless land out there.

I know other agencies get goverment funding but if the PGC gets the license increase they want, what will be their excuse then.

Those other states certainly have their hands full with the variey of big and small game they have to manage.

I'm also sure other states have their public relations problems, but did you notice any in this NORTHEAST FORUM involving other states?

What about the other FORUMS on this site. Do they get threads with hunters complaining about their Game agencies, with this many hits?

You seem to think that the public relations problems the PGC has is comparable with other states. I think you are a little off.

I feel the PGC has a spending problem as much as a revenue problem.

With todays gas prices, they don't need full size vehicles. They need to spend all day riding around either. It would be nice if they did a little walking back off of the road once in a while. Maybe they could locate where all those deer are that are supposed to be there. From the looks of some of those overweight WCO's, i've seen, they could use the exercise too.


They could also timber a bit more in some of the northern WMU's, sell the timber and it would help with the regeneration. I heard somewhere on here that they were only allowed to timber so many acres a year. Maybe they should look at that.

If you look at the forrest overbrowseing problem up north. That was the PGC's fault there. Years ago when there was a overpopulation of deer there, the PGC stuck to the one deer per year limit.

Their job was to manage the deer herd to prevent such things and they failed to do their job. Now we are dealing with the problem of the carrying capacity being reduced, because of the overbrowseing years ago.

While PA use to have the 1 deer per year limit, other states were allowing multiple deer per year. That was why I started hunting West Virginia, because after I tagged a deer in archery, I was done in PA.

I didn't see other states letting their forests being overbrowsed years ago, causing the big issues we have today. I just think they dropped the ball in too many areas.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

PGC == Penn "Game" Commision if I not lieing about this also. It doesn't say Penn. wildlife commison.

I don't care what some say I have hunted in PA, Ohio, WV, NC, NY, and Wyoming and have dealt with Wardens in most if not all of these states and I can honestly say the PA is the only state that approaches me every time as if I am about to murder someone. I deal with Ohio game commisnors on a reg basis and I can't say a bad wordaboutthem. About 10 yrs ago or so I reported a gentleman for stoppng on the road and shooting at a buck that ran across the road down in Lowhill in Washington county. I gave them a distripition the the guy and car and a full liscene plate number and they told me that I will be hearing from them in this case. Well I am still waiting. While hunting in WV 2 yrs ago I saw almost the same exact thing and I reported it there and was told them same thing I was told in PA except 1 week later they called and told me I wouldn't be needed to testify in court or anything the gentleman plead guilty and is paying the fines. I have made at least 4 calls to the PGC over my past 20 yrs of hunting and I am yet to know how any of those complient went. PGC is totally destorying PA hunting in every possible way. Elk county is a deer wasteland Used to be able to see tons of deer now your lucky to see a dozen deer with a spotlight. A very good freind of mine who lives in NY and is a member of my hunting cabin had some type of Cancer in the back parts of his eyes which he had Cemo(sp) patches put in there and his eye sight is very bad and he called the PGC and voiced his opionion about the antler restrictions and his inabilty to count points. They told him well don't hunt or just shot does. His condition doesn't quilify for "disabled" Don't get me wrong I personally agree with antler restrictions but for some people it just isn't relistic and the PGC should understand this in some points.

R.S.B I will make a point in speaking with you whenI come up I know of 2 houses that I have seen PGC trucks at regulerly 1 at the mouth of Island run but I heard he was retired some yrs back and the other at the house on the edge of Lake City portland mills side. As for the deer skulls/bones not hard to find. Past cemetary turn right(El Rancho road) first hosue on right and first house on left. Someone told me they are brothers but I am not sure of this. Trail runs from back of house bones are 100 yrds back along trail and about 40 yrs on the right side of the trail. If you do not wish to let the guy know your looking into it then park at the small cabin on the left past his house and go straight back about 500 yrds and you will find the trail. You will also find a big wirebarrel corn feeder. But I sure you know all this already.

Trytan

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Why is it necessary to check each and every hunter's license you encounter? If the hunter has not given you any reason or provacationto suspect him of an infraction why would youstop him and disrupt his hunt?

Does a State Trooper stop every driver he encounters and check hisdrivers license? Iresent this practice as I don't break game laws and give no provacation. To me it appears to be nothing more than aego trip for the Game Warden.

I have yet to be stopped, checked and have the Game warden say something like...Take your boy and go over to such and such area, there are more pheasants there or more deer there. I get the impression that they are merely looking towrit another citation for some trivial mistake on the hunters part.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Since we're on the subject of alleged heavy-handed PGClaw enforcement,what didja think of the Charles Foster lawsuit being dismissed?

For them what don't recall the incident, here's the scenario according to one source:

http://pgchallofshame.com/stories/page15.htm

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Interesting Never heard of it.

Why was it dismissed?

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

We got a new WCO several years ago.He's a younger guy and I never really had much dealing with him until recently.About 4 years ago my buddy was waiting to pick me up on the first day of archery season after I repositioned a stand for the evening hunt.The WCO stopped and checked his lisence.My buddy didn't have anyID so the WCO circled a code on the back of his lisence.Other than that,he gave my buddy no crap and he wasn't the least bit offended.Over the next couple of years this same WCO stopped to check on me as I was heading into or out of the woods a few times.He never once checked my lisence,just stopped to see how I was doing.I have no doubt he was looking me over but he never bothered me.After that, he just waved when he saw my truck.I've gotten to know him a little better over the past couple of months and I like himmore each time I talk to him.This guy has more of a law enforcement mentalityon the surface than others I've met but he's actually a pretty nice guy and very willing to helpif you ask.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

You should consider the source. Yes there are many species which occupy this state. I use Deer because that is by far the most hunted animal in our state. Majority of hunters or ex hunters were Deer hunters. Maybe they dabbled in small game or waterfowl, but Deer season was a religion.

How is the PGC responsible for lack of hunters? How about nothing to hunt. Do you really believe that having three tags to fill for so many years didn't have an effect on the herd? Use common sense. When so many people were taking not one, but two doe out of the herd, what do you think happens?

You expect me to get them excited about hunting again? Yeah ok. Any of my kids friends I get involved into shooting as it is part of my line of work. I get them involved in hunting as much as I can.

What I can't do is make the herd bigger to where people don't feel like they are just taking the gun for a walk.

But that is a result of anything in the world other than the PGC.

There are good things and bad things about the PGC. My points have only shed the negative light as most WCO and deputy alike believe that the PGC does no wrong.

ONE FINAL TIME, they are no different than any other enforcing bodies in this country having flaws, made mistakes, bad apples, etc, etc.. the others can atleast man up to any mistakes or problems they had.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

R.S.B. wrote this.
"As for all of the horror stories about the abuse of power, that too is just so much BS; we live by the exact same constitutional limitations that every other law enforcement officer in this state lives by. We have no more power then any other law enforcement officer. The only real problem is the one of the public perception that we aren’t real law enforcement officers, but that too is wrong. "

In response I would ask if any one that works for the P.G.C.can explane the Don Madl horror story for me , no abuse of power there was there.No arrests made ! And he is still collecting money from the p.g.c.
Its pretty hard to respect a group when their leader is a scum bag!!!!!!!!.