RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

The thing is,I've never heard about any of these abusive searches around here,period.Again,maybe I'm just fortunate to live in an area where we havegood WCO's.

Igrew up in Wyoming county and had a less than pleasant experience with a youngdeputythat lived up the road from my parents one time.It's a long story but the guy was a total putz.He showed me no respect and he got even less in return.That was the only time I even had an issue but I would have had an issue with that punk even if he didn't have a badge.I'm not sure but I doubt he's even a deputy any more.Point being,that was one negative experience and i see no reason to label every LEO on that situation.The WCO's that I've met over the years have always been respectful and polite.As long as they keep treating me that way,I continue to comply with their simple requests.Every WCO that I know is always more than willing to go out of their way to help and I've gone to several of them many times.

No organization is perfect,including the PGC.However,I just don't find fault with everything they do or criticize every move they make like some do.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I'm glad you've had more good luck than bad Doug. As you said, any organization has it's bad eggs. It does seem, however, that there are enough stories with similar ingredients that the PGc could do well to not dismiss them so readily.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Imagine that most of the encounters with the PGC were similar toyour encounter with that Wyoming Co. Deputy.

Maybe then, you'd see things from our point of view.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I would see things differently but that hasn't been my experience.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

It has been my experience.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I'm not saying I don't believe you.I'm sure there's bad apples in every bunch.It's just that my experience with the PGC has been positive in this part of the state.The WCO'a and land managers have always gone out of their way to help when asked.They don't harrass me or any of my friends.We still have plenty of deer where the habitat is better and we'll have more once the rest of the habitat starts to recover.We have a ton of turkeys and decent grouse numbers.I get 10 times my money's worth for a lisence and I mainly hunt on public land.

I honestly don't see how it can get much better.I remember the days of one deer a year.if you killed a deer with a bow,the rest of your season was shot.Now I can hunt all three seasons and spend way more time in the field.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

The Game Commission does not receive any general state taxpayer dollars for its annual operating budget. The agency is funded by license sales revenues; the state's share of the federal Pittman-Robertson program, which is an excise tax collected through the sale of sporting arms and ammunition; and monies from the sale of oil, gas, coal, timber and minerals derived from State Game Lands.

So are they paying the state off to be super cops and make everything ok that they do???Cause we as tax payers are not... Would any of you mind ifa hired private detective or investagator, how about you dougE,? andthey pulled you over and search you and your possessions just because for no reason??? would you mind this at all???

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

What are you talking about?

That hasn’t and isn’t going to happen to you or anyone else. If it has then you certainly should have filed a complaint and talked to an attorney about the possibility of a law suit.

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Like hell if it didn't..this was in clearfield countyand coleen shannon was the one who pulled us over and used the excuse of a gun shot to check our vehicle cause we was the only ones around that area..more the less the first vehicle she seen...she didn't ask she demanded and she was with another pgc person also...we heard no gun shots at all...

another incident that happend to me about 20 years ago.10 years before the episode with coleen...I was hunting a private property but it wasn't posted and other people have hunted it also..still to this day people still hunt it and the PGC has no connection to it at all,as in dmaps or shared land for hunters..anyway..
I was hunting there alone and there was a few other guys in the same lot of woods as I was..I heard a few shots before the end of hunting and seen one of the guys in camo clothes carrying an ar15.. I don't care what people hunt with or how they dress when hunting,if they want shot thats their problem... I came out of the woods with these 2 other hunters at the same time..they was parked beside me..
I started to talk with them on the way to our cars..I asked if they was the ones who shot about 30 minutes earlier and the one said yea but they missed.I then asked was they with the guy who had the ar15 dressed in camo..they said no
we are at the cars another car beside ours with someone in it.I put my rifle in my car and was about to leave and the man in the other car told me to waite..anyway I knew something was wrong..Here the man I seen with the ar15 in camo was a deputy warden..He came up out of the woods with another warden 3 of them now...without asking they opened my car door and took out my gun and smelled the barrel...i was like wtf.. I told them to put my F!@##$ gun back in my a car right now...

At this point i am ready to tear into these 3 F!@# 17 years old and full a adrinalin..i am turning red and ask wtf is going on...the deputies told me someone just shot 2 does down there and my gun smelled like hopps and hasn't been fired...I told them I wasn't with these people and they just looked at each other...they checked another gun and it hasn't been fired recently and the other smelled of being recently fired...Then they asked the 2 if I was with them and they said no I wasn't after45 minutes of questioning the one confessed to the shooting of the does .they got my rifle out of their vehicle andgave it back to me and told me I could go. not I am sorry or appoligize or no concern or respect to me at all...Just I could go now.. They didn't even tell me they was wardens till after they took my rifle and checked it over... these wardens was very scum of the earth people as the way they treated me and talked to me..

7years ago,I was walking down the road withmy fishing pole in my hand my creel over my shoulder no water to be seen,,I was stopped by the PFC and checked my liscense..The creek was 50 yrds in the woods and I was walking the road to my truck..Is this legal to do also... This is when I said no more of this BS..I got the money now and a lawyer...no more of this BS from these agencies...

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Seems to me that if the officer was sure one of you two had committed a serious crime he did the right thing. It didn't sound like you were mistreated at all. Would you have been happy if the poacher got away, but you were treated with kid gloves?

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

smokeman, The way I see it the two that you walked out of the woods withare the scum bags, not the wardens. The wardens knew someone did something wrong. Howcan they do their job if they don't investagate?Someoneshot the doe's and they found out who.How would they know that you didn't do it unless they smelled your gun. You have to remember they are dealing with three strangers with guns, they are not going to be laughing and joking around.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

First of all, Read Smokemans story again. The warden was not in uniform and opened his car door without asking and without identifying himself. Imagine this scene for a minute.Some guy dressed in camo in gun season opens your car door and helps himself to your rifle... Would it be unreasonable to think he might be a whack job that might turn the thing on you? After all, who in his right mind is running around in deer season in camo. Suppose that happened and the hunter came to that conclusion and suppose the hunter hada handgun.

Did the officers have cause to investigate? YES ! Did they have the legal right to yank smokemans gun out of his car? maybe Did they screw up and possibly put themselves and others in undue danger? Damn right thye did!

Yet another story about an unprofessional rambo type deputy running roughshod over an innocent hunter.

I once had an encounter where a deputy (in a business suit, not a uniform)had his handgun pointed at my and my friends kneesbefore identifying himself. Our crime? We were approaching our vehicle about a half hour after legal quitting time. (we had been way back in tracking a wounded deer) This guy put himself and us in danger when common courtesy was all that was needed for him to do his job and let us on our way. Imagine if we'd assumed he was some psycho intent on shooting us with that thing and reacted defensively.........

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Well, big deal they looked at his gun. So what they were in camo. They caught the scumbag poacher,and I love that part. I will say no more.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Big deal..Let me get in your truck and take your gun out of it when you don't lnow me...This was an illegal search without a warrant and my rights to my property.. You would throw your guns down if they thru an m80 in your yard i would bet mlo313.. These people are not paid with tax dollars... They have no right to do this.... I am not paying them to treat me like a criminal,I am paying them to respect my rights and to have game animalsand land to hunt on .... Another thing,I don't care if someone shoots a deer without a tag or out of season as long as it don't go to waiste and they do it the right time of the year when the does are not pregnant... But to say it's no big deal of what they did with identify themselves and not asking is a big deal to me...You wouldn't mind if I took your gun out of your truck now would you???
THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID BY TAX DOLLARS.....I could start my own little agency then and make my own laws and be protected by the courts then if I don't use peoples tax dollars then... Anyone want join???

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Well your honor, this guy stormed up to my car in camoflage, didn't identify himself or say anything but proceded to enter my vehicle and grab my weapon out of it. I had no idea what he was up to but his actions caused me to fear that he meant to do me or someone elseharm with it so I drew my concealed handgun and........

Unconstitutional powers, arrogance and unprofesional conduct: ingredients for disaster.


Excessive power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

Pretty clear why you don't like wardens!

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

No thanks. It was bad enough the first time around.


I am trying to imagine it and can tell you that smokeman and theother goobersDEFINATELY had a sense that these guys (wardens) were LAW ENFORCEMENT. I guarantee thateveryone there knew what was going on. Maybe the wardens did not followthe book or maybe they did (as I think smokemans representation of EXACT details may be a little "cloudy"). Maybe the Wardens were a little pissed off, since they just found an illegal deer dead, and rightfully so if they were. Sound like they got the job DONE.


I notice you left out their main duty:to enforce the law.


That's obvious. Sounds like a solid member of the hunting community with an obviously objective opinion.


Not everyone feel the same way (thankfully).

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

After several years on the internet now, I kinda like to read these "Wardens were mean to me" stories. Some areveryinteresting and have complicatedplots, but in the main, often entertaining.

Probably becauseI quit drinking years ago and just miss all them highly-intelligent, late nightgabfests at the localtaverns.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

I will say one more thing....... Exactly my thoughts!

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

They may have got the job done but they didnt DO their job.
Yes they caught the guilty party but they could have used just a bit of professionalism by showing their badges and explaining themselves before conducting an illegal search. When it was over they could have very easily thanked smokeman for his patience and it probably would have made all the difference in how he views the PGC next time.

It's a fine line betweendoing a good job as aWCO or deputy and abusing power. It sounds like some of you havent had an experience where someone crossed that line. Be thankful for that but dont condemn those that have had a bad experience for telling the story.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

That statement I made had nothing to do with me not likeing wardens..
It's not my bussiness what someone else does...I am not goanna condemn or report a person who shot a deer out of season or an extra one during season.. Poachers will not deminish the deer heards.. Just because I wouldn't tell on someone,, doesn't mean I do the same... I don't have to defend myself,But I do obey the laws when it comes to hunting except the ones that are black and white that everyone breaks or atleast 98% of us break every year..And we all do...


I notice you left out their main duty:to enforce the law.

Animal Cops.... Super Cops...not to treat people like criminals....It's an animal that God put on this earth for us to be dominant over and not for people to treat others like hard core criminals because of these animals..As Isaid earlier..If they quit thinking they are Super Cops and start acting like regular game wardens instead of checking everyone and their vehicles just because they can,,maybe they might earn some respect...All my encounters with the PGC and PFC have not been to my liking...It's like they are missing the conversation part with the hunter to get an understanding of what that hunter is like..
When you walk up to someone and say let me see your liscense...He allready thinks your guilty of something..am I not wrong on this?? They need better communication skills with the hunters, not this ,it's my job or I am a super cop attitude... Atleast ask in a polite way instead of demanding...You catch more bees with honey than being a sour puss..

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

When I was young, My father and I went pheasant hunting with a family friend. His brother was a Deputy Game Warden. ( He took us to where he stocked pheasants)

As we were standing around the truck we saw a car load of hunters coming up the dirt road. The Deputy said to his brother

" Watch this!"

He stopped the car and looked in at the driver. He introduced himself and told everyone to get out of the vehicle. He looked around inside. He then went on checking license.

When the driver ask what was wrong, the Deputy flew into him, putting his nose right up with in inches of the driver's nose and started yelling at him. He said that they were roadhunting because they were driving too slow. The guy said " We aren't roadhunting"

The Deputy got mad and started ranting even more. Accusing him of maybe having something to hide. Telling them he was a Game Warden and this was his job. Asking to see hisID and checking his license a second time. The deputy ask where their guns were and the guy told him they were in the trunk. The Deputy made him open the trunk andstarted checking all the guns. Taking them out of their cases.

There were two young hunters with this guy about my age at the time. They had a confused but scared look on their faces. I'm not sure if they were his sons or the other guy's.

I remember feeling angry at the time. I was putting myself in those kids shoes and imagining my dad getting yelled at like that by a Game Warden. I felt bad for those guys.

I remember those kids looking at me as they were getting there guns checked and they deputy was yelling at the guy. I almost wanted to apologize to them.

They didn't do anything to deserve that treatment. They weren't road hunting, their guns were cased and in the trunk of the car.

I lost alot of respect for the Deputy that day. I thought he was a nice guy. He treated me and my dad nice. Even at that young age I knew that it wasn't right what he did to those guys. I'm sure he made what would have been a good day, for those guys , not so good.

My dad talked to me when we were away from the Deputy and his brother. I remember my dad telling me that , that wasn't right and thehe was just showing off. My dad said he didn't want to hunt with those guys anymore, and called them a__holes.

We hunted about another15 minutes with them and then left.

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

the moral of the story, don't screw with new kids you see hunting cause your goanna get an ass whoopin from their father..

RE: What you all think about this BS..
 

The original topic here is about the game law giving unconstitutional power to WCO's and deputies by allowing for unreasonable search and seizure. It is asimple, undiputable fact that the game code, as written, allows its' officers greater latitude when it comes to searches, than other law enforcement officers have.

Toomuch powerafforded tolaw enforcement leads to abuse by some, not all. That coupled with the deputy system leads to situations like those told here. There's just too many similar stories from non violators out there for it to be all "lies and distortions" as our WCO member has stated. The game code needs to be corrected in compliance with our constitution and a large part of the deputy force needs replaced or at least needs serious attitude adjustment training.

A statement I once heard from a deputy kinda says it all.

He asked a group "What seperates a sportsman from a poacher?"
When everyone had said, I dont know he replied "a witness"