RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

"DougE", you've got a very strong point. Gosh, why bother with and accounting system or method at all? Why not just trust in the opinions and guestimations of the Pennsylvania Game Commission?

Shucks, they were right when they said there were 1.6 million deer in the Pennsylvania woods. Why should we doubt their figure of the deer kill?

Like I always say, trust in the PGC, that's the best policy. They know best.
Wouldn't you agree Doug?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

crazy horse, they dont want deer. you can see that. its checking barn owls and moles now.they are making new jobs for themselves and deer are not their priority now.question is,where is pgc going to get money to survive if hunters stop buying licenses do to lack of deer,rabbits, pheasants, grouse?that is why i think they WELCOME merger with DCNR.then money will come out of general fund.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

If that was done in the dead of winter, throw it out the window. I have found some large groups of deer and some nice sheds on the south facing slopes when snow is covering all other areas. That is when no one is hunting!!! Spread those deer out during fawning and the hunting seasons and you will get much less per square mile..As someone said earlier: SHOW THE AREAS THAT HAVE LESS THAN 10 PSM! They are many!

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

youre right.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

Crazyhorse,yes I do think the PGC knows bestalthough no one knows with certainty exactly how many deer are alive or killed in this state and that wouldn't change with check stations.Don't blame that on the PGC though.Blame that on the 60% of hunters who are too lazy to fill out and send in a self addressed,postage paid report card.They're your problem,not the PGC.the PGC made a huge mistake when their computerized model showed we had 1.6 milion deer.You forgot to mention that they admitted the mistake.

Sproulman,show one piece of evidence that the PGC wants all the deer dead.That's simply ridiculous.They do need general fund money and eventually they'll probably get it.If not,you'll really be crying and wishing you supported them all along.

ANDESMAN,The FLIR was done in the dead of winter.That's the best time to do it because it shows the dd at the most critical time of the year.The time when most of the deer browsing and damage occurs.DCNR is not saying that are has 126 dpsm.They were clear in saying those deer were concentrated in that spot because there was heavy cover and a big mast crop in that immediate area.The dd in that unit average out to 16 dpsm and there were huge expanses of land with few if any deer.The reason for that is the poor state of the habitat in that unit.In the winter,before green-up the deer haveno browse to eat there.As a result they concentrate in the few areas that have some food.This is one reason DCNR has to fence their cuts even at relatively low deer densities.It often takes few deer to further damage the habitat when the habitat is already stressed.The habitat is this area is absolutely pitiful.Had the habitat been better,the deer would be more spread out.Winter is absoluely the best time to get an estimate on the dd.By the way,in 2003 the PGC estimated theoverwinter dd in 2G to be 12 dpsm.The FLIR in these three dmap units showed an average of 12 dpsm.Not bad for an agency that doesn't have a clue according to Crazyhorse.The unit that had the 126 dpsm wasn't even in 2G because the interstate seperated it from MVF's other two units.They fall in 2G and the FLIR showed they each had about 10 dpsm even though they had concentrations as high as 43 dpsm.The PGC was pretty dam close.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

Crazyhorse,I'm curious about something.Are you just bitter because you haven't killed a deer in years or are youcontributing to the problem by refusing to send a report card in?If so,would it be more convenient for you to go out of your way and drive your harvest to a check station?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

why dont they do what they do, or use to do for the DMAP if u dont send it in you dont get a license next year.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

That's a great idea but they even scrappedthat this year because there's no way to prove whether or not the post card got lost in the mail.On line or phone reporting would be the best way and it's probably coming in the future.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

Crazyhorse,I'm curious about something.Are you just bitter because you haven't killed a deer in years or are youcontributing to the problem by refusing to send a report card in?If so,would it be more convenient for you to go out of your way and drive your harvest to a check station?

"Doug E" I'm not bitter about not having killed a deer in a few years. Actually I've been trying to get my boys a shot these last several years. I really don't care if I ever shoot another deer. I get more enjoyment out of seeing my sons get a deer. In fact, I prefer to gun for small game. More excitement, and more shooting with small game in my opinion.

Just for the record, I've never missed sending in a report card. In fact I've chastised others I know who don't, or won't send in their report card. I follow the rules, not like some PGC officials I've had dealings with.

And yes, the PGC did admit their "gustimations" of deer numbers was incorrect, ("guesstimations" by EXPERTS I might add.) but only after many hunters and the USP took them to task. Had not the agency been seriously challanged the lie (not mistake)would still be perpetuated.

I clearly remember check stations in the 60's and 70's. I always stopped at them. Many states use them with astonishing results such as a reasonablyaccurate accounting of deer killed. Remember, Game Wardens and Deputies need NOT be present at a check station, and any gas station or general store can be utilized.Other states do it, why can't PA? If nothing else it should be manditory for Non-Residents.

It all comes down to competent management of the agency. In the case with Pennsylvania the agency lacks thenecessarry element of good management. If managed properly and competently, we would have a good grouse population. We would have at least some areas with a sustainable population of wild pheasants. PA would not have areas devoid of deer. PA would not have put a bear biologist in the leadership position of deer management and allowed him to work OJT for 4 years. Andthe PGCwould not be on the brink of bankruptcy because we don't harvest the proper amount of timber for several years.

I respect the men and women of the rank and file employees who do the best job they can. I have less respect for the leadership that allowed the agency to sink to the depths ofnear bankruptcy due to incompetence.
The facts speak for themselves.

Defend them to your hearts content, but please ask your agency friends to explain why the31 year Grouse Study has not been implimented on any other Game Lands when it would benefit Grouse as well as all other game and still render a profitable timber hartvest as stated in the report?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

By small game you must mean squirrels and rabbits because according to you the PGC ruined the pheasant and grouse hunting.How did they do that again?You never explained it to me in the first place.

I've hunted states that have check stations and they're a painto deal with.I killed a buck last year on Nov 5in Ohio.I took it to a check station which was no big deal and got a doe tag.That afternoon I killed a doe and barely made it to the convenience store in time to check it in.Had it been closed,I would have had to wait until morningand paid the money for a hotel room.In Ohio no one ever came out and looked at either deer.They didn't get any biological data so what was the purposeof checking it in.A simple phone call or post card would have been much easier.Besides,please explain how they factor in the number of hunters that take their deer strait home and cut them up?They don't even have a figure for that but we do.No way is their system any more reliable.It's just more inconvenient.

You keep coming back to the grouse but you leave out the fact that decades of overabundant deer helped to ruinthe grouse habitat.I agree that the grouse study has alot of useful information.I can show you two gamelands within 5 miles of my house that has implemented some of the things they mentioned.They can't do it alone thought.memebers of the local grouse society and habitat unlimited both donated alot of time and money.We'll be doing some aspen cuts on SGL 93 next winter.Do you want to come and help?

I've yet to see one area in Pa that had suitable habitat that was devoid of deer.

Alt was a pinhead.I won't argue about that.