RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

No Doug, rabbits are scarce also. You should really try small game, it would give you greater insight. I hunt Pheasants, Grouse , and Quail in three different states. Yes Doug the agency ruined pheasant hunting, the PGC neglected Pheasants over deer and turkey, just as they are doing to grouse. Only now are they showing a mild interest in reintroducing WILD pheasants back into Pennsylvania. Note, they contribute NO FINANCIAL AID to those who are actually introducing the birds. Cal DuBrock never included it in the budget. Do you think that the agency might have an obligation to assist and suppoet monitarily in such an effort? I DO !!!

You don't need trained personnel to count a dead deer! Check stations can be very informative or simply give an accounting of a kill. PGC personnel can still do their extensive studies on the deer they examine.
In Ohio you could have left them a simple note with the basic info they require for documentationalong with a phone number to call. (This is the21st century.)

Why don't you come out to NE PA and help out here? You obviously don't need the effort in your area, we do need it here.

One last question...are those rose colored glasses that the agency issued you with your hunting license, or did Cal DuBrock give them to you?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

How did they ruin the pheasant hunting?I believe most of our wild pheasants diedbecause of a disease.I may be wrong but I doubtthat's any fault of the PGC.Pheasants aren't even native to this country let alone Pa so I really have no intersest in them and I support the PGC for not wanting to foot the bill.However,I do hunt grouse alot but generally after christmas,once all my deer tags are filled.I also hunt turkeys every single day during the spring except on Sundays.

Inever said you needed trained personnel to count dead deer but what do you gain by counting them if you can't guarantee every dead deer is acounted for and have a percentagefor those that aren'tchecked in?Ohio has no idea what percentage is not checked in.We do,so our count is probably more accurate.You can't just leave a note with your phone number.In ohio you give them a temporary ear tag and then they hand you a permanent metal tag to attach to the deer.An IOU isn't ging to fly.Like I said,it's very inconvenient in certain circimstances.

I'll tell you what,you come out to this part of the state and help out and I'll do the same.I grew up in Wyoming county and still hunt back there every year.I hope you're not complaining about the lack of deer in that area.A blind,retarded monkey can kill a deer in that county.It's an ongoing effort in this area bythe PGC,DCNR and concerned volunteers.

I never met Cal Dubrock.If you got some new glassesyou mightbe able to see a deer once in a while.Maybe the United spike shooters of Pa can start issuing new glasses to anyone that signs up.If they do,maybe their membership will reach 12 this year.They should at least give you guys a picture of a deer so you could at least remember what they look like just in case you see one by chance.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

"Doug", "Doug"...your getting upset. Calm down...pull yourself together. Take a deep breath..... That's better, now let it out,...Let go of the hate, let go of the hate.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

crazyhorse,i hate what pgc has done and dcnr too. you talk about your boys. i know people, some on here that said they got 5 deer in hunting season. doug may have been 1.then you see kids and adults that never saw deer or did not get one.a good hunter, i am one, could fill every license they would give us because we have time and skill to hunt everyday or as much as possible.if pgc and dcnr cared they would not issue all these licenses.give the others that dont get deer a chance. i have not shot doe or fawn in over 10 years.yet people come into area i hunt and some already got 2 or 3 deer.they want more. this is WRONG. again, if pgc and dcnr cared ,this would not be happening.1 deer and you are out of woods for season.now, i know some will say, WELL, THOSE OTHER HUNTERS DONT KNOW HOW TO HUNT, I DO, SO I NEED TO GET ALL THOSE TAGS TO FILL MY FREEZER.hunters that do this disgust me but the pgc lets them do it,so they are real culprits in the deer eradication program.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

The hard truth is that (then Ex Director) Vern Ross and the Board of Commissioners (let's not forget that they had a hand in this)allowed a non-proficient, ill trained (in deer management) Bear biologist Dr. Alt assume the position of statewide deer management. This (ego driven) man then implimented a statewide deer program before ever completing any pilot programs to obtain valid and necessarry data relevent to deer management in Pennsylvania. Just imagine if drug companies operated in this fashion. Issue a drug before doing any studies to see if the drug really works,...yeah right! Dr. Alts plan was VERY unscientific!And this from a so called schooled scientist.

Can you invision Chevrolet putting in a new braking system in every car they built without first testing that braking system? (Can you imagine how many major law suits would be filed against Chevy and General Motors?) (Note there is only one law suit against the PGC.) Well that's what our agency allowed Dr.Gary Alt to do to the WHOLE state. Even the new head of deer management Chris Rosenberry has said the plan was faulted. Unfortunately he waited until now to utter his then thoughts. The previous second in command Marret Grund was not terribly thrilled with the plan either noting the fact that Cal DuBrock and Alt had "dropped the ball" and had not addressed Urban Deer Management in the plan. You'll noticeGrund has since left the agency. (Smart move on his part.)

Doug obviously lives in an area (close by) that has a clear abundance of deer. By his statement the agency is doing a great job of providing good habitat. I'm glad for him. Unfortunately he's not experienced the conditions others have had at the hands of a neglectful and ineptagency. He tells me to come to his area to hunt. I can't. I've got considerable money invested ina camp some 185 miles from my home that I simply can't and won't throw away. I feel the Doug should move to another area. Sell his home and relocate. What the hell, he's a very adaptable kind of guy.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

I have no hate for anyone Crazyhorse.I do have little tolerance for people that dream up conspiracy theoryies about everything the PGC and DCNR do.I also have a problem with people that refuse to open their eyes and see how poor the habitat is in many cases.

Sproulman,To be exact I killed a dmap doe in archery season,another dmap doe on the last day of rifle season,a buck in archery season and an archery buck and doe in Ohio.That makes 5 deer but theyweren't all killed in Pa.I do kill at least three deer in Pa most years and I make no appologies for doing so.I hunt where there's plenty of deer and it isn't always close to my house.Last year I hunted in Clearfield,Elk,Cameron,Susquehanna and Wyoming counties.Some of the places whereI hunt was told to not waste my time becausethere was no deer ,yet I killed deer with no trouble and saw plenty.People have been complaining about no deer for several years where DCNR found 126 dpsm.I don't waste my time hunting where I can see for hundreds of yards through overbrowsed timber.I hunt where there's food and cover and find deer all over the public land in Clearfield,Elk,Jefferson and Cameron county.It's called hunting.I put alot of time in all year long andI get alot out of it.That's what I show my kids and when they're old enough to hunt,they know it won't be about instant gratification.People are screaming about no deer in this area as loud as any.In fact there's been several "save the deer conferances"held by various groups.I don't know what to say because I have no trouble finding deer.The camps are empty in deer season but they're full in bear season and for Mosquito creeks coyote hunt.Imagine that.I'm hunting in the same conditions as everyone else.I just spend the time looking for places where the deer are more concentrated.We have alot less deer now than we used to and the habitat is making a big recovery so I plan on staying the course.Give me the tags and I'll fill them.Sorry if Idisgust you Sproulman.You just have no clue about the relationship between deer and the habitat.Besides,If I don't shoot them,the mountain lions will just get them anyway,right.

Crazyhorse,I don't disagree with much of what you say about Alt and how the plan was implemented.I have lots of problems with the way it was handled.Alt was a salesman not a deer manager.You'll get no argument about that from me.However,it's indisputable that we had way too many deer for decades in the northern tier.Something had to be done and drastic herd reductions were necessary.If hunters hadn't cried and complained for years and years about wanting more deer,the herd wouldn't have had to take such a beating.Herd reductions was also bitter pill for me to swallow in the beginning.Now it's so obvious why it was needed,I feel foolish.

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

i agree we needed to kill off some deer. and i understand that in some areas they reduced some tags. but in my unit 4D they stayed the same. now around here puplic land gets pounded w/ hunters. the private land areas are just that private and loaded w/ way too many deer. i do my part i wont shoot a doe on puplic land.
other parts of the state may be different but around here the deer are loaded on private land. so what do we do in this case?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

Buy your self a piece of that deer laden land.;)

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

" so what do we do in this case?"

That's a question that can only be answered by our Commissioners and PGC Executives.

So Commissioners and PGC personnel, (we know they listen in) what's your remedy?

RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
 

gobbler, i have deer on my privateland.right next to me is SAME land but its stateforestland.no deer on the stateland do to OVERHARVEST OF THE DOE AND FAWNS. i have hard time keeping poachers off my land. wco has been notified of this and he has caught some.question for doug, if deer are on stateforestland here in 2g why are poachers spending all their time hunting the privateland areas?they dont even go near the stateland.i wonder why?hmmmmmmmmmm