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RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
ORIGINAL: sproulman ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3 its poaching they are doing. I can legally be hunting on your land but illegally be tresspassing. I know a few outlaws from years back....They would go and set in the corner of the woods next to a field where people would spot light at... Theoutlaws would shoot the innocent peoples deer they was spotlighting...The people in the car see the deer fall and take off...If there was anyGPC in the area and heard the gunshot,,That car who took offor if they stayed in that area would be pulled over and searched....The outlaws would grab the deerand cruise out of there as calm as could be with no worries... |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
No one said there were alot of deer in that area.I have seen some of the recentclearcuts and you're right,some of them do look better.That's because the deer herd is down.Go look at the clearcut between Mitch's and the interstate,the one where they took the fence down two years ago.It's looks like that because it was fenced for over 15 years.I used to live in Rockton.During the early 90's,i drove that road every night on my way home from work at about 11:00pm.It was noting to see 100 deer from the top of the mountain to Mitches.That amount of deer was insane and that's why we have such poor habitat.Look at the clearcuts over 5 years oldthat were cut and not fenced.You'd be hard pressed to find one piece of prefered browse growing.See if you can find any stump sprouts surviving in that area that are over 5 years old.I bet you can't.
The habitat is starting to look better because there's alot less deer now than there was 10 years ago.That was the plan and it's working but it won't happen overnight.When you see wide open woods with no understory except ferns,you're looking at poor habitat caused by too many deer.When you drive past Mitches and hit the intersection of rt 322 and153,look strait ahead.If that's not deer damage,I don't know what is. |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
douge,its longer growing seasons and rain this year that is causing growth in some areas.areas with a lot of maples still have little growth.lets face it, our winters are going to become warmer longer do to global warming.this means longer growing seasons.thats what you are seeing.
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RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
ORIGINAL: DougE When you see wide open woods with no understory except ferns,you're looking at poor habitat caused by too many deer.When you drive past Mitches and hit the intersection of rt 322 and153,look strait ahead.If that's not deer damage,I don't know what is. The deer eat that aquatic food also that grows in it... Not counting the acorns and walnuts and fruits and berries back through this stretch of area.... Think there is no food because we see all these deers by the roads eating the grass...Actually they prefer this green grass and especially the salt from the winter that is spread along the side of the road...Would you rather go out and have a steak if you could or stay home and have a hamburger??? These deers did not eat themselves out of house and home...There has allways been abundant food for them..... I forgot the most abundant of food sources in that area.... Mountain laurel...There is acres and acres of that...You know this for a fact also if you hunt this area.... You also know that they had plenty of food and was not in anyway going to be over populated for their food sources... Do you know they are logging parts of the state forest along 322??? How would the logging industry do 20 to 30 years down the road if the deer ate all the new growth??? Not to well at all...And by logging instead of letting trees die on their own and fall over is worse for an area for regrowth of new trees???Trees die and decay..This decay becomes minerals and suppliments for the healthy start of new growth...When an area is logged,What minerals are put into the earth for regrowth??? This is about the logging industry.... Look in your Pa. game digest on pages 42 and 52 2E on page 52 is the areaof Mitches on page 42 they are giving out 21k doe tags for that area... This is the area they are doing loggin and have state timber for sale.... Let me get back more of this after I figure the map out to make sure I am looking at it right.... The maps that was posted at the beginning of this post.... Ok lets presume there is10 deer psm in 2E...And 2E is 1200sqm...Thats 12k deer and they are giving out 21K in doe tags for this area???? What the hell is going on here????Even on the posted areas I dont think the total of deer would surpass 15k in 2E.. And how many of these deer are bucks and subtract that from the number of doe tags???? 2G is 4 1/2the size largerthan 2E and the largest wmu on the map and they only issued 19k doe tags for 2G....There is something going on here...... |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
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RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
ORIGINAL: DougE Sproulman,yes there is private land near the area where they found 126 dpsm.However,it's open to hunting.The guy that owns the road that goes along side the state land did put a gate up a few years ago but you can walk in to hunt or fish Anderson creek.The fact that there's private land nearby means nothing.People are allowed to hunt that area and the flyover was done in March,long after the last hunter left the woods.the deer were concentrated there because it's one of the few areas that had a combination of food,cover and water. I don't knowthe last time you been back there DougE,But there is alot of posted private property back there now.. The reason was because it was posted...Not because of food or cover for these numbers... |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
First of all,ferns are not a main main source of a whitetails diet.Even if they were,they would do the deer no good during the critical winter months.I agree that mast is a good thing but it's notpredictable from year to year.We had a tremendous mast crop last year and a mild winter.Have you noticed the higher recruitment rate?I have.Mountain laurel is not a prefered browse species.Deer eat it during the winter when they have no other choice.Sproulman is correct in a way.This summer has been very wet and humid.It's perfect growing conditionsfor a variety of plants.Generally,deer can find enough food this time of year.The problem is that deer need high quality browse to survive during hard winters.They don't have that on Rockton mountain.The over winter deer density is what is critical and what must be monitored.If we didn't have for seasons,the carrying capacity wouldbe much higher.You have to stop worrying about what's out there now for the deer to eat and the mast crop.You have to consider what's out there for the deer to eat in the winter.Mountain laurel is not a good food source.You'll never find anyone with any knowledge about deer to agree with you about that area having good habitat.Try to go out in those woods and find at least three pounds of high quality browse.That's what each deer needs to eat in order to make it through the winter.You'll have a hard time doing.Imagine whatdamage 40+ deer can do to an area with little browse after several months.You need to take your blinders off.That are has some of the worst habitat around.It's a textbook case.
To the best of my knowledge,they still have to fence all of the timber sales in that area.I have a meeting with the district foreser tomorrow so I'll find out for sure.They leave the tops on the ground to help keep the deer out and they eventually decay,putting nutrients back into the soil. They aren't saying all of 2E has 10 dpsm.Besides,that's an overwinter deer density,not a pre-hunt density.No where in 2E will they have a pre-hunt density of 10 dpsm.they actually said that area of the SF averaged out at 16 dpsm.That would put the prehunt density at well over 20 dpsm. They area where they found the 126 dpsm was on state forest land.Access is closed to motor vehicles now but you can walk in.Most of that are is not posted.Besides,the survey was done in March,several months after hunting season.Deer go where there's food and cover.They where in that area because they didn't have to travel for food because of the big mast crop in that laurel.Again,no one is trying to say that area is loaded with food.the deer concentrated in the few areas that had adequate food for that time of year. I used to hunt that area quite a bit and still do occassionally during turkey season.Most of my time is spent in 2G.I hunt the dmap area on the other side of the interstate and SGL 93 AND sgl 77.Both of those SGL's have plenty of deer as does the state forests in many places.I did have a dmap for that unit two years ago.I killed a doe during the early muzzleloader seasonnear Kelly cellar.I saw plenty of deer in that area. Just the fact that you think the habitat is fine in that area tells me you're in total denial.Deer should not have to rely on ferns and mountain laurel.Things are looking better in many areas aorund there now that the herd has been reduced.For the first time in decades,stump sprouts and saplings are getting past the reach of the deer.Once again,show me a stump sprout in that area that's over 5 years old.You can't do it because they don't exist.The habitat in that area isone of the most pitiful examples in the state. |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
The reason 2G is getting less tags that 2E is because there are less deer in 2G.Once they started to approach in and in some cases,go beyond their goals,they slashed the tags.That's exactly what they said they would do.See,the plan is working.
I hope you're not trying to say that they're issuing more tags in 2E because of the little bit of state forest in 2E.2G has way morestate forerst than 2E so if it was all about the timber,they would issue more tags in that unit.By the way,dmap allocation didn't go up one bit in District 9this year.Are they tryingto regenerate more trees?Absolutely,it helps the economy and the wildlife.This isn't all about deer you know.Do you know anyone that works in the forest industry?I do and I bet they want to see more trees for the future. Deer need browse to survive the winter.They can't survive on ferns and fungus.You really need to understand that.Once you do,your success rate will increase.You'll shhot more deer if you locate a stand near real food and cover than you will if you sit in a bunch of fernsand stumps with no sprouts but lots of fungus.That last post made my day. |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
Yes they do eat ferns and mountain laurel .....And I have seen them eat these things...And yes they can survive the winter on these foods...Fungi= shrooms ....Look this up about what they eat.... Like I wrote,Would you rather eat a steak or a hamburger most the time...
Spend some more time out in the woods learning foryourself about what deer eat....The deer had no shortage of food...... Also your telling me and everyone else that the main food source of deer are sprouts???? Think about what you are saying here now????? Your telling me that sprouts are the only food deer will eat.....And this is proof from over browse they are over populated???? Or is this proof that the forestry are not goanna make any money in the up comming years if the deer prefer sprouts(steak) over other food sources(hamburgs).. Spend more time out in the wild instead of reading about these things and learn the truth for yourself..... Don't BS me on their food supply .....Not what their favorite foods are...But,what they will and do eat.... I would ask who is in denial here when it comes to what deer eat and there is a shortage offood ...I would have to ask the question why the PGC are also doing surveys of private property where ones not allowed to hunt at to get deer stat numbers so high to justify the sales of doe tags.. Even at 16 DPSM that would be 19,200 deer for 2E and they gave out 21k in doe tags...Again buck to doe ratio subtracted from the 19 200....Let's not forget about the posted lands that are not allowed to be hunted on...These deer shouldn't be counted cause they can't be hunted and are protect by propert rights...Now your goanna tell me there are still 16 DPSM on huntable non posted property???In your wildest dreams maybe..... |
RE: DCNR SAYS 126 DEER PER MILE IN CLEARFIELD,PA.
You're lost smokeman.I never said deer only eat browse.I said they need during the winter.Mast is not reliable every year and ferns and fungus are not available at that time of year.You're also very wrong about ferns.While deer may chew on them from time to time,they provide no nutritional value and they are not a preffered browse species.It's the same story with laurel.Deer eat it as a last resort because there's nothing else to eat.
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