baiting deer in Pa
 

hey guys i just heard from a friend that they passed a law you can bait in special regs areas threw out the hunting season now is this true.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Not law, yet. Here's a potion of the PGC release:

"As recommended in the recently released Urban/Suburban Deer Management Plan, the Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to permit the use of bait in Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery and Philadelphia counties, as a means of increasing hunter harvest in these highly-developed areas.

While illegal in other parts of the state, the General Assembly and Governor Rendell, in 2004, approved a change to state law to authorize the Game Commission to permit the use of bait for deer hunters in special regulations areas counties, except for Allegheny County. After examining other state's methods of permitting baiting and development of an Urban/Suburban Deer Management Plan, the agency took action to permit baiting within the parameters of the law."

Note that this was preliminary approval, are taking comments, and would be subject to possible final approval in October.

I doubt if it could be implemented this season.

ChuckS

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

i hope so i hunt a christmas tree farm and these deer on there don't stay they just pass threw seen some monster deer just can't get close enough for a bow shot.. they don't come in just one way either...

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

it does not surprise me that the pgc allows this to happen. they want deer dead and this is another way of getting rid of them.get your cameras ready guys, i saw YELLOW BELLY SAP SUCKER,i wonder if i need a permit to SHOOT these pictures?i was up all night around camp fire waiting for daylight to come to SHOOT my camera.i thought i saw a barn owl the other day.yippee!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Have you ever been to any of the special reg areas?There's deer all over the place and not alot of ground open to hunt them.Alot of these people are fed up with all the deer.You see,not everyone wants a deer behind every tree.Baiting,while not my idea of hunting is better than other alternatives such as using sharpshooters and birth control.

Why would the PGC want all the deer dead?You have no idea what you're talking about and you have no proof to back up any of your nonsense.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

PGC wants all the deer dead so the mountain lions don't have enought to eat and move out quietly... :D

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Bionic----If all the deer are killed, then there probably will be no more need to stock more coyotes, either, right?? The cougar stocking program was just starting to get off the ground, too. What a shame!!!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

PA Wildman, I think the coyotes were only stocked to eat up all the grouse. The mountain lions were stocked to keep the deer population down, but no whtat they are letting themselves get seen anywhere the PGC is having all the deer killed so the Mountain Lions move out. i think.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

its this simple, does not need to be a brain surgeon to see what is happening. with the lack of deer ,most will give up hunting. i just talked to 2 friends that are not buying license this year.its growing trees now and TOURISM.do you think TOURIST want out in woods with us with guns running around,nooooooooooooo.so, if deer are reduced to nothing, its this simple, LESS HUNTERS IN WOODS. throw in license increase, less again in woods.now, some will be happy.they think, well, less hunters better for me to get a deer.i reaaly believe that day will come when you will only be able to hunt certain parts of state forestland.rest will be called WILD AREA.no hunting only BIRD WATCHING.stay tuned!!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

So, deer hunting regs become deer killing regs. That will make you a better hunter for sure. Wonderhow PETA will respond, once you eliminate fair chase. What's next, night vision scopes?

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

mike, as funny as that sounds, it could happen.i hope you can see its out to get rid of deer now. no management plans, just kill them off.sport of hunting now is disappearing.but you know, i blame a lot on hunters too.they are shooting small doe and fawns.even tho the PGC lets them do it.most dont have privateland like i do and have deer,IF I CAN KEEP POACHERS OUT,i have same land as stateforestland and i have deer when i can stop outlawing.future dont look to good if deer are reduced .greatest state for deer hunting PA.now going to be a thing of past.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Sproulman you are so right. This agency (PGC) has mismanaged the deer for years. Where once PA was a major deer state, now we are not even in the top 10.
They mismanaged the Pheasants. Where once PA was a major Pheasant hunting state, now we don't even count.

They have mismanaged the Grouse. Grouse hunting is very poor in Pennsylvania, and has been for many years.

Now in all their wisdom the Pennsylvania Game Commission has decided to put a great deal of effort into Elk. Yes folks. Elk. Forty lucky lottery winners get to hunt Elk in Pennsylvania, or should I say shoot elk off of someones lawn in N.Central PA. WOW! What a hunt!

Whare once PA had OVER 1 Million hunters we now have just over 800,000, and who knows how many less will buy a license this year.

It appears that the "Keystone Cops" have taken over the Pennsylvania Game commission.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Yep,you guys are so right.The PGC wants all the deer dead so that agency is no longer needed and they can outlaw guns.Who do you suppose will control the deer herd once that happens?Think about what you're saying.They want all the deer dead now but no one to control them in the future.You guys are so whacked out it isn't even funny.

So how exactly did the PGC ruin pheasant hunting and grouse hunting?Did they introduce a disease that killed most of the pheasants?Did they change modern farming methods that hurt the natural reproduction of pheasants?Did they set the seasons and bag limits too liberal?Do they control if we have a wet,cold spring that effects poult survival?

You're right about one thing.They did mismanage the deer for way too long.They did this to appease greedy hunters that wanted deer hunting to be easy.They did this at the expense of the habitat and now every species that depends on a diverse understory is struggling.You have no idea what you're talking about.The PGC is underfunded and understaffed.They can't possibly create all the habitat that's needed under their current budget,It's impossible.Yet many of you want them to be even more underfunded.

Where does most of the funding come from for the elk program?

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

"They did mismanage the deer for way too long.They did this to appease greedy hunters that wanted deer hunting to be easy."

So how is baiting going to make deer hunting harder?


"They did this at the expense of the habitat and now every species that depends on a diverse understory is struggling."

Doug, you bought the lie. I have deertraversing my property daily and I have 1 ft oak seedlings galore.
Who's funding the Elk program? Probably the Rocky Mtn Elk Assoc., much to the detriment of the local deer herd.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug, you are fighting a lost battle my friend. Using facts and common sense against anger and frustration (even if it is misplaced) will not work.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doud and Bio. You bought into the BS spewed out by the agency.

Revel in it. Gloat if you must.

It's unfortunate that a great many PA hunters (and especiall young hunters)in many areas of the state, without access to private hunting (unlike [70 DPSM]yourselves ) will not even see a deer this coming season.

Dr. (Kevorkian) Alt made deer hunting in PA a sham. And all the kings men on Elmerton Ave sanctioned it. Now several are saying Alt's plan was flawed. Where the hell were these geniuses when Alt was running wild? (I'd hate to have to share a fox hole with those MARYS.)

As far as Pheasants are concerned, has the agency made any serious attempt since the early 80's to reintroduce WILD Ringnecks in PA?
Note, I did not say Sichuan!
Right now with the reintroduction program headed up and funded by PF and a university and the USDA the PGC is playing a (reluctant) very minor roll with NO CASH contribution. Three years running and Cal DuBrock did not budget for it. It's as though they really don't want to have pheasants in any significant number. ( By the way, I don't believe DuBrock hunts.)

Take note, the agency did budget for ELK. How many hunters will hunt Elk this year??? 40?? 50???... WOW!

Pheasant hunting would draw 250,000. Maybe more.

Grouse hunting would draw 100,000. Maybe more.

Justify that ace.

Concerning Grouse, the PGChas a successful 30 year study that shows PA could have Grouse numbers equal to some N.Central states such as MI, WI, and upstate NY if they would only initiate the plan. They wont! Why not? It works GULLDAMNIT!

Why conduct a study, that proved successful, for over 30 years and not impliment it?

After you consult with your PGC handlers please provide logical answers.

Get your head out of the clouds and take a sniff of the ambiant air. That odor from PGC BS will only make you sick!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

After reading the misinformed opinions and (misplaced) anger by Crazy Horse RVN, MikeE51848and sproulmanI have to agree with you Bionicrooster.

I read too much emotion and very little knowledge in their posts, a bad combination.

ChuckS

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Perhaps you should try reading the Grouse Study. The spelling may be better, but the message is the same.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Mike,I hate baiting as much as the next guy.It's not going to make hunting harder.They're implementing so that deer can be pulled off of the properties where hunter have little to no access.Do you have a better solution?I have no doubt that you have 1 foot oak seedlings galore.i see places like that from time to time but it's a rare occurence throughout the northern tier.The deer have devistated this part of the state andherd reductions werea bitter but necessary pill.No one lied about that.three years ago I thought is was all a big scam butonce you see the facts,it's easy to understand.

I never had access to private land thatwasn't available to anyone else.Most of myhunting has been and will be done onpublic land.i killed 3 deer last year and two of them were on state forest land and one was on unposted private land owned by a timber company.

I agree that alot of what ALT siad was a sham.The guy was a putz and he made ridiculous claims that could never come true.it still doesn't change the fact that we had too many deer in most places.It also doesn't change the fact that we still have some pretty good hunting opportunities on public land.Pheasants,like autum olive is a non-native species.They disappeared for a variety of reasons,all beyond the control of the PGC.How would expect to a broke agency to fund a reintroduction program?

I've read the grouse study.It's a good read and we would benfit by implementing many of the things mentioned in it.Again,who's going to pay for it?Elk county has three full time food and cover guys that are responsible for maintaining all the game lands,food plots and rifle ranges.These guys have all they can handle now and that's the situation in most districts.Without the much needed funding,who's gonna do all this work and who's gonna pay for it?You guys are so lost,it's frightening.

Chuck,I realize it's impossible to change the misguided opinion of people that have no facts to back up their arguments.It's fun listening to their nonsense though.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug,
The PGC was not broke for all of the 25-30 years it has been since wild pheasants disappeared yet they did nothing to reintroduce wild ringnecks. Also, the grouse study concluded that habitat practices that result in plentiful grouse could be self-funding -- something which has nothing to do with the PGC's present financial condition.

p.s. to all who are unhappy with baiting in the S.E. SRA, please post your reasonable suggestions for reducing deer/human conflicts in that area that would result in at least as many extra deer beingremoved as baiting will likely produce.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

MJ,why did the pheasants disappear to begin with and how was the PGC responsible?I don't see how anyone can complain about the lack of money that's been put into the pheasant program.Habitat work is usually not self funding.It takes manhours and equiptment to do it the right way.That's something the PGC is lacking.It takes foresters to cut timber the right way.They don't even have enough foresters to manage the large tracts of game lands in the north central part of the state.Talk to some of them sometime.I talked to the head forester in Elk county this weekend.He told me they should be cutting more timber on the SGL's but they're short handed.I got a chance to see alot of what theydo.Contrary to what Crazy horse has been saying,they concentrated on improving wildlife habitat by managing certain areas for species like big toothed aspen over red oak.The exclosures are too thick to walk through and they have alot of grouse.That never would have neverhappened without a fence.Many of the pioneer species like fire cherry are growing well and provide food and cover for wildlife and no monetary benefit.You guys that claim this is all about money are just flat out wrong and you have no proof to back up your accusations.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug,
You are muddying the waters: I never claimed that the PGC had anything to do with the disappearance of pheasants;I only noted that they did nothing to remedy the situation until 25-30 years later and countless small game hunters (and their license dollars) were lost to other pursuits. I hope the current PF wild stocking experiment works out; I have no reason to believe that it won't.
I also noted that the PGC grouse report concluded that the project could be self-funding, plain and simple. Your's is definitely a minority opinion if you think that Pennsylvania has a lot of grouse on gamelands.
Finally, if what you heard from the forester is true, and timbering is a profitable enterprise, then he has indicted his bosses for not hiring (or sub-contracting for) more foresters and producing the revenues that would not only cover their salaries, but revenues that could be used for other endeavors (like stocking more birds or hiring more WCO's).
There is no justification for not cutting timber that should be cut and foregoing those dollars.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

"There is no justification for not cutting timber that should be cut."

Oh yes there is. It's called the law of supply and demand. Limit the supply and you drive the price (in this case timber) up. Now you may say that the PGC does not cut that much timber to affect the price, and I would argue that the PGC is among one of the biggest timber sources in the state. They would have to affect the price of timber, be it ever so small, and I don't think it comes under the small catagory.

That begs the question if my thoughts are remotely correct.....WHO PROFITS? (Think about that for a moment.)

With 38 foresters on the payroll and only some 7000 acres cut last year it doesn't appear to me that those fellas are overworked. And as Mocha Java stated, why not contract out and use the profits to pay for the whole effort?
Or does it just break down to incompetent management of the agency?

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Hmm...

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Blah, Blah, Blah... How about sticking to the topic or go back toSlim Jinsky and post there.

I'm not crazy about baiting deer but I think baiting in the special reg areas is the only way to help keep the deer numbers under control in highly populated areas (developments, towns, industrial parks, etc.). New Jersey allows baiting for many of the same reasons. I think baiting would initially have a high kill success rate but as we all know with time the deer will get smart to that tactic as well.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

doug, did you know that rendell gave the kelley estate 1.5 million dollars of our tax money last week?this is where the elk are going to be released.did you know your buddy, rawley cogan is getting his picture taken there now. isnt he in charge of rocky elk thing?DOUG, WHY IS THAT MONEY NOT GOING FOR OUR DEER. ITS OUR TAXES AND I AM MAD OVER IT.rawley had smile 2 ft wide on his face in that picture.dam, i am pissed!!!!!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Not to worry about those elk. They won't hurt the potential for forest regeneration. I don't think elk eat Oak Trees. I have it from a knowledgable source that elk much prefer freshly mowed lawns.

The proper camo for hunting PA elk is Lawnboy Green.
Most PA elk hunters shun Elk Pee attractant for a fist full of fresh cut grass.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

I agree. Depending on how the baiting is implemented, those deer will learn in as little as three days.

It is just one more tool to accomplish the aim; reduce the herd in urban/suburban areas. Just like 50yd archery, crosssbows,red tag... Baiting in this situation is not about traditional [PA] hunting, but about trying to solve the myriad of problems in controlling an urban [over] population of deer.

ChuckS

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

MJ,I never said the gamelands have alot of grouse.I said there were alot of grouse in the exclosures.You need the right habitat tosupport the game.Thousands of acres of open timber is not good grouse habitat and the overabundant deer herds of the past are a big part of the problem for the lack of grouse habitat.When they timber the gamelands,it isn't always profitable.Alot of what they cut isn't marketable as paperwood let alone timber.Not all of the gamelands have high quality timber.Weather and the terrain also plays a role as well as the timing of a cut.It makes more sense to cut timber,especially oak when you have a good mast crop so there's a seed source on the ground.they aren't manging the gamelands for commercial timber.They do it for wildlife and guys like crazyhorse would realize that it they went to see a land manager.There is justification for not cutting alot of timber.If you cut much more than 1%a year you'll eventually end up with a bunch of pole timber that's worthles as wildlife habitat.There was also not point in cutting alot of timber in the norhern tier until the herd was reduced because you'd get minimal regeneration.

Sproulman.I never met Rawley so he could hardly be considered my friend.I don't know why that money isn't going toward the deer.I guess you'll have to ask Rendell.What's the money being allocated for?Isit for the habitat,relocationor viewing sites?A far as using tax dollars for that project,so what.Over 90% of pennsylvanians don't hunt so maybe many of them would prefer to see more elk than deer.It's their money too.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

doug, i thought he would be your friend.you seem to know all key players .anyhow, that money is going for habitat improvements for elk.maybe viewing area too.doug,only thing that REALLY ticks me off ,hard to get me ticked.is when you say, LACK OF DEER IS DO TO BAD HABITAT.FAWNS ARE NOT BORN.sadly, they have brainwashed you on that one.that line is one that is being used by the pgc/dcnr and pennstate and anyone else that wants to pull wool over publics head.TRUTH is lack of deer is do to,overharvest of doe/fawns.yes, habitat is not best for deer but not 1 group that want the deer killed off are offering a solution. you even said it, YOU CANT CUT TREES.i say CUT TREES.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

"If you cut much more than 1%a year you'll eventually end up with a bunch of pole timber that's worthles as wildlife habitat."

Doug, you above all people, with all your PGC contacts and unequivical knowledge and Game Land tour experience should CERTAINLY be aware that the agency has consistantly (over the last SEVERAL years) cut little more than .5% or 1/2%.
By not cutting a full 1% the agency has effectively denied themselves of some $10 Million + Dollars a year. And that has occured each year, every year for the past SEVERAL YEARS. Just think about how much money the agency would have in reserve if it had met it's stated goal of 1%. That sir, is a lot of money LOST! Unrecoverable!

Also, it would not end up as "a bunch Pole Timber" if they would practice Habitat IMPROVEMENT (IMPROVEMENT being the KEY term)by planting various shrubs and trees beneficial to Game and Wildlife. That's a basic premis of Habitat Improvement.
And yes, they may have to tube these newly introduced shrubs and trees.

Just for your bank of personal kowledge, (and please feel free to inform your PGC contacts) I have attended a Game Lands Tour. I toured Gamelands #12 and #36 two years ago. There were a few exclosures that left me unimpressed. The problem facing Land Managers is lack of manpower and old equipment. That particularLand Manager had some 65,000 + acres to manage and work and he only had 4 or 5 people to do it. Not early enough.
I wonder if you know how many acres of landDCNR Land Managers oversee and how many workers they have per unit?
I might add that DCNR achived their stated harvest goal. How do you explain that?

If the agencycut the stated goal figure they would have one heck of a lot more operating money. That cannot be denied! So the next question is Why would the PGC deny themselves of $10 Million Dollars, consistantly for several years running? That's a whole lot of cash still standing in those Game Lands Woods.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Sproulman,there are many remote areas with pour access and very few deer.Hunters are not killing those deer.If they aren't,who is?You are beyond clueless if you think that the habitat doesn't effect the productivity of fawns.It's a basic premis of deer management.The PGC examines road-killed does in the the spring to determine how many fawns are bred and how many embryos they have.In the northern tier,very few fawns are pregnant because they can't reach the required weight by fall and the amount of multiple births is down.In fact the one land manager stated that he never cut open a doe and foend triplets.That's directly related to habitat quaity and it was severly compounded by the winters of 2003 and 2004.Recruitment was up last year and it will be up again this year.If that keeps up and we have a few more mild winters,you may be able to see some deer once again during hunting season.That is,if poachers and mountain lions don't get them all.

Crazy horse,You are correct about the amount of timber that's been cut.They probably should step it up but it takesmanpower to manage it correctly.Not all of their cuts are done for commercial profit.Many of them are done with vary little monetary value.That takes money and manpower.Planting trees and shrubs sounds all warm and fuzzy but the truth is,they shouldn't have to.They should be able to getadequate,preferred regeneration without planting.Besides,who's going to pay for the plants and the manpower?Ontop of that,they need to fence most clearcuts in the northern tier for several years because of the deer.that also costs money so the profit margin isn't that great.On top of that and I'bve said this before,the habitat on the game lands around hereis much better than the state forests and most of the private land because they do have guys working on them 12 months of the year.What do we do about the 90% ofland that isn't game lands?

I did have the figure on how many foresters and employees DCNR had.I forget the exact number but they have far more manpower per acre than the PGC has.Are you saying DCNR is doing a good job managing the state forests?You're right,there is alot of money standing in those woods.That money will still be there when they cut it.They didn't lose anything.I've also seen exclosure that left me unimpressed as well.This is a complicated issue and there's a ton offactors effecting regeneration.Not every spot will regnerate successfully with or without the deer.However,the majority of excloures in this part of the state show that without a doubt,the deer are the limiting factor at this point.It's undeniable.

You're answer to everything is how poor of a job the PGC is doing.They should cut more of this and plant more of that.I agree they should do more in a perfect world.However,they have very limited resources and a host of factors to deal with.The facts are as clear as day,that the deer are the limiting factor effecting regeneration in the northern tier.They have reams of evidence to prove it and they'll show it to anyone.It's also undeniable that many areas are starting to respond to lower deer densities.You can whine and cry all you want about the big bad PGC and your lack of deer sightings.I could care less.I'll continue to scout and hunt the best areas of the game lands and state forests with dmap tags in hand.I'll have a full freezer of deer once again this year and for the first time in my life,I'll be able to add a couple more from an areawherehunters never been able to hunt before.That 10square mile area will be open for the first time because of myself,our district forester for DCNR and a forester from the US forest service.We wereable to show scientific evidence proving the deer were destroying the ecosystem in a 10 square mile area.We were laughed at and told a hunt would never happen here.Fortunately,reasoning and common sense prevailed,giving 120 hunters a chance to hunt some prime property.Along the way,alot of people were educated on the effects of a deer herd that was too big for the habitat.It's funny that you keep throwing this up in my face.this was a project that took about 2.5 years to complete and alot of hunters will benefit as a result.It was no easy task and I wasn't confident that this would happen.Yep,I'll get a chance to hunt deer this year at ridiculous deer densities but none of my obsevations are based on this area.I'll hunt 2 or three other dmap properties in state forests this year because my two dmap tags in Treasure lake will be filled by the first friday of archery season.I'll put money on that.The rest of my season will be spent in the big woods like I've done for the past 26 years.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

doug, i cant stand a person like you ,with lack of deer,going out with bag full of d-map tags to get a doe or fawn when the future for kids is in danger because of people like you.as you said, a FREEZER full when others dont even see a deer or pass up shooting a fawn, then you come along and get your FREEZER full. i see where you are coming from now.YOUR MANAGEMENT PLAN IS TO fill your freezer.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Quite the alarmist there! :(

Seems Doug can find the deer, are you saying there aren't huntable numbers?

ChuckS

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

"You're right,there is alot of money standing in those woods.That money will still be there when they cut it.They didn't lose anything."

Doug, your statement that the money will still be there is misleading. How long will it be there before it begins to rot?

How long will the agency wait to recover these vast, self inflicted losses?
It's been several years now and still counting. Just when do you surmise they will begin to cut at 1%?

As far as some of the timber not being usable for board foot, well theres always pulp. They pay for that you know.

No matter how you cut it the PGC is a poor manager of their/our holdings.

You are also correct in your statement;
"Not every spot will regnerate successfully with or without the deer."
Well, that's reason enough to introduce shrubs and trees beneficial to Game and Wildlife and do a little liming.

Not all of us live in the areas we hunt or even close to them. Some of us drive hundreds of miles to a camp we maintain at considerable expense. I might add that we also defray your cost for electric power. If we didn't, your electric bill would skyrocket!

You'd think differently if you had a camp a couple hundred miles away from home.

Oh, don't forget to post photos of your exploits and kills this coming deer season.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

I can't stand a guy like you either that constantly spreads mistruths and has no facts to back them up.I definately hunt with the intent on killing something.That's a primary purpose for being out there and that's why they call it hunting.I don't kill fawns by the way.I will continue to kill a buck every year and I'll continue to harvest does where there's plenty of them or where the regneration isn't where it should be.If i knew of an area where there where no deer and the habitat was still good,I wouldn't shoot a doe there.So far,I haven't found a place like that.It boggles my mind that people continue to hunt where they say there's no deer.I'm not complaining about a lack of deer so why should I not shoot any?If other hunters don't have the skills or the ambition to actually find where the deer are,why should that dictate how I hunt?

The future for our kids is at stake because of people like you.People that refuse to look at the facts and learn to understand why herd reductions where necessary.Without good habitat,the future of hunting is definately at stake.Every time I kill a deer,I know I'm helping out the local situationand I feel no guilt pulling the trigger.Remember Sproulman,I'm not the one crying about no deer.I see plenty of deerfrom I80 all the way north to Sinnemahonin and al the way to Wyoming county.

The people that are crying about no deer and spreading stupid conspiracy theories about the PGC are the one's hurting the future of hunting.The guys writing their democratic legislatures are hurting the future of hunting.The ill-informed legislatures that refuse to grant a fee increase to the PGC are hurting the future of hunting.The guys telling their kids how bad the hunting compared to 20 years ago are hurting the future of hunting.The guys trying to sue the PGC are hurting the future of hunting.I have an 8 year old daughter that goes in the woods with me all the time.She helps me find stand sites and hang stands.She helps mescout for new areas to hunt and to hang trail cameras.She can spot preffered deer food and good habitat better than most adults that have been hunting all their lives.She knows what a browseline looks like and she knows the best place to sit on opening day isn't where you can see for hundreds of yards.I don't know if she's gonna hunt or not but she'll know what it takes if you expect to successful.She also understands why it's important to hunt and balance the herd with the habitat.These are all basic things that all the whining,crying, self centered hunters who are constantly complaining about the PGC don't understand.There's an old saying,you can't teach what you don't know and you can't lead where you won't go.If hunters don't understand the basic principles of deer and habitat management,how are they going to instill that into their kids.You're correct that the future of hunting istrouble.Instead of teaching kids to be good stewarts of the land,guys like you do nothing but complain and bash the very agency that'sresponsible for managing all of this states wildife.You,the USP and the state's best sportsman,Mr Slinsky all make me sick.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

crazy horse,I rarely take pictures of the game I shoot and if I did,I wouldn't know how to post them.You can come over for some backstraps anytime though.I still have a few packs left.Thanks for defraying my electric bill.I really appreciate.

I got a few figures for you.The northcentral region has 6 timber markers to cover 10 counties.Now you tell me they enough manpower.

You talk about timber standing to rot.Some of the big oak trees can live another hundered years.Maybe you didn't know it butacorns are a valuable food source for deer and a variety of other wildlife.Some oak trees can live to be 200-300 years old.

Simply cuttingthe timber isn't going to do anything in many areas.At this point invasive species such as hayscented ferns,beech,birch and striped maple are taking over many areas.Much of the gamelands were private holding that were sold to the PGC for a small price.Much of this property was high graded before the PGC aquired it and the invasive species take overwhen an area is cut.After a cut,these areas need to be treated and fenced in order to get preffered brwose species.This all cost money and it takes professionals to do it right.It's not as simple as you and many other make it seem and there isn't always a huge profit in it either because of the steps they take to ensure it will be suitable habitat in the future.The PGC could do alotmore but they need additional funding as well as additional manpower and equitment.All you guys that went crying to the state reps asking them to handcuff the PGC by not granting a fee increase just bit your nose off to spite your face.The very things you want the PGC to do,can't be done without additional funding.You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

doug,well, all we hunters do is complain,yes, but no one listens,i thought you would but you are not interested, i guess.i just got thru today talking to lynn swann office. i told him the ONLY way for him to even have chance to win against rendell is if he gets active on this DEER ERADICATION PROGRAM.oh, by way, i just got call that penn state is going to spend a ton of money,GRANTS FROM FORESTRY AND FLOWER LOVERS, on another study. they are going to study sproul forest with gps and log computers and survey the different FLOWERS that are in woods and ones that should be in woods.they are only going to study flowers that DEER EAT.hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug,
That was a first-class rant and I'm impressed. I hope everyone understands that you don't have the faintest understanding of timber economics.
There is an optimum time to harvest each species. If trees are not harvested in that period, then when they are finally harvested, the return is not optimized and the potential revenues(including the interest that would be earned on those revenues)are lost forever.
One big reason the PGC is in fiscal trouble is their long term failure, unlike other agencies,to harvest timber at optimal times.
If you don't understand this thenI don't think you are playing with a full deck!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Normally I'd be against this, however the special regs areas are a whole different ball game. They are overpopulated and underhunted. There's so many car accidents around the spec regs areas too. The PGC is a management agency, and by allowing baiting in these SR areas, it's a good way to manage the unhealthy population. You have to ask yourself, would you rather have hired sharpshooters, or hunters baiting deer?