RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Sproulman,deer management should be left to the professionals.The posts on this message board reflect the fact that hunters shouldn't have much input.Who's cares if PSU is studying flowers.Deer aren't the only thing to be concerned about.

Mocha java.I realize that there's an optimum time to harvest timber.In fact there's many factor that go into it to ensure that future regeneration is adequate.It's usually better to harvest timber following a big mast crop and it makes no sense to harvest when the dd is high and the surrounding habitat is poor.Do you even know what a mature forest is?At what age is a forest considered mature and how long will it stay that way?Do you understand thatmany species rely on a mature forest.It's not all about the deer.It's best to have a mix of timber.That's why they won't cut more than 1% a year.Do you realize thatin many state game lands,the timber isn't vauable.It's not all red oak and cherry and not all of it can be easily harvested because of the terrain.Do you also realize that very few stands of timber in the northcentral part of the state are over 100 years old.There isn't much of a chance of that timbering starting to die and rot in the near furure.Besides,the bigger it gets,the more it's worth in most cases.You're the one that's not playing with a full deck.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug, Doug, Doug...It's as though the PGC had their hand up the back of your shirt and was playing vantriliquest.

Doud Said..."It's best to have a mix of timber.That's why they won't cut more than 1% a year.Do you realize thatin many state game lands,the timber isn't vauable.It's not all red oak and cherry and not all of it can be easily harvested because of the terrain.Do you also realize that very few stands of timber in the northcentral part of the state are over 100 years old.There isn't much of a chance of that timbering starting to die and rot in the near furure.Besides,the bigger it gets,the more it's worth in most cases.You're the one that's not playing with a full deck."

If that's the reason they won't cut more than 1% per year why are they on a 100 year rotation program. Isn't there any other method?

If the timber on many Game Lands isn't valuable why not whack it down and plant something the game would prefer? Also, what better place to initiate the methods of successional forestry discribed in the Grouse Study?

What are you talking about when you say the terrain is too difficult? I've hunter Idaho and have seen timber operations on some of the steepest slopes in America. If they can harvest it in Idaho why can't they harvest it in Pennsylvania? Do the foresters in Idaho know something the foresters in Pennsylvania are totally unaware of? Are the timber guys in Pennsylvania bone heads?

Doug, you need to revisit reality. Oh, and enjoy the electricity. Whith many hunters abandoning and shutting down their deer camps you may well see an increase in your electric bill.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

doug,dont ever believe that places you say that are WAYBACK,have herds of deer.they dont. there is no place wayback that you cant get to now.we go WAYBACK because our hunting was always wayback.this is buzz word the ones that say there are deer use.many buzz words are being used now.many words used now by deer eradication group.HERE are some. we are lazy, dont get off road, dont know how to hunt, deer are WAYBACK,weather,habitat killed fawns, hunters sit on their a,well, you get my drift. doug, many fancy BUZZ WORDS now. take care

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

For year after year they didn't cut even close to one percent and you throw that in? It has never been an issue that they should cut more than that amount.
Once again you are trying to muddy the waters.
I repeat whatI said before: you are not playing with a full deck!
To everyone else: beware of this person!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Yano, perhaps yer right; I think we should leave it up to the "professionals" to find "alternative funding" for the PGC as well !!

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

crazy, they are using russian helicopters now here in pa. to get wood off the steep hillsides.i was just at a site today. my forestry friend owns company.they carry out about 2 or 3 trees per trip.its fast.has 6 workers on ground with slings and chainsaws.they can cut a tree on highest mountain, no roads , no trouble.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Sproulman, I have no doubt that that "Other" poster is a PGC plant. May even be Joe Neville (Executive PGC Valet). Timber is the bigest issue with the agency. They employ 38 foresters and only 19 Wildlife biologists. That should tell you where their first priority is. DCNR managed to make their 1% goal. I guess the PGC can't find any timber companies in the phone book. (Or did they run out of Brother-in-Laws in the timber business?)

And your right about the agency claiming that we hunters don't hunt hard enough or go deep enough. Three years ago I was better than 2 1/2 miles...REPEAT...2 1/2 MILES deep (GPS Confirmed) into Game Lands 12 (24,000 acres) with my two sons.
The youngest was at my side as he was only 13. Four does topped a bench a mere 40 yards from us. He had a doe tag. He wispered
"Should I shoot the closest deer Dad?" I thought about the 2 1/2 mile drag up and down 2 mountains and said,"Lets pass these up. We'll work our way back to the car and kill one closer with less dragging." What a fool I was! For 2 days we only saw 2 other deer and they were on a dead run probably 75 yards out. Impossible for a 13 yr old to hit.So don't let any PGC stooge tell you you don't go far enough ordon't hunt hard enough. Thats BS !
The people who keep saying that are those guys who get back ache form putting up a roofed tree house for a deer stand on restricted private propertyand get tennis elbow from carrying a Pee bottle up the ladder to the tree stand (house).

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

I never had to say you had to go deep to find deer.What I said was the deer herd is way down is some ofmost remote are harshest terrain.These areas recieve very little hunting pressure,yet the herd is way down.It's not hunters that are killing them,it's the habitat and winters of 2003-2004.Ikilled 5 deer this year between Pa and Ohio.Four out of those five deer were killed within a half mile from a road and 2 were very close.I killed one deer that was 1.23 miles from my truck on the last day of rifle season.I saw over 20 deer that day and 18 elk by 10:00am.the only reason I went that far back is because I new the areas was logged in 2001 and it was one of the few places around that had food and cover.That's a steep mountainous area in Sinnemahoningwhere the logs where also air-lifted out.It's pretty expensive to do that and not always practicle.

Crazy horse,you need to revisit reality or at least make an attempt to figure out what reality is.You keep forgetting that the PGC is understaffed and underfunded.Habitat work takes manpower,money and equiptment.They already cut non-valuable trees and do a bunch of habitat improvements.Maybe you should see the work the do in Clearfield,Elk and Jefferson counties.They would do more but they need more money and more manpower.This winter I'll be out there cutting aspen on SGL 93 with the grouse society.Maybe you like to pitch in and help.

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

Doug, the agency always seems to have an excuse. They don't spew excuses when it come to Elk Habitat. I guess that's because sooooo many Pennsylvania elk hunters are in agreement.

All I can say is that when a land manager has better than 65,000 acres of Game Lands to manage and only 4 or 5 workers on his staff, he really can't get a whole lot done. It's not the land managers fault. The fault lies at the feet of the Executive group in control of major funding, operations and planning. Those are executive duties. That cannot be denied.

It's obvious that you are living in a blessed area. Unfortunately some or should I say a lot of we PA hunters are not. Humble yourself to at least acknowledge that some of us can't travel great distances and some of us have commitments to camps that we've sunk many dollars and time into.

I believe the deer numbers will come back, andwith a vengence. Once again the agency will come under fire and this time for having far too many deer in every corner of the state. Only when that happens they will have driven and discouraged many hunters out of the sport and there will only be "Alpha" hunters to do the killing.
Do you think there are enough of you "A"s to do the job?

RE: baiting deer in Pa
 

By law, when you buy Pa. licenses, a portion of the fees go into three legally mandated dedicated habitat improvement funds ($2.00, $1.25 and $3.00 respectively). Perhaps some of you remember that the last license increase included the creation of that new $3.00 habitat fund and that the increase was sold to hunters who thought that they would be getting more habitat for game. I recall our local WCO coming to our club and making that exact point and asking us to support the last license increase (which we did).
There have always been millions of dollars available every year for habitat improvement projects and that the only reason they are not done is because the PGC applies these dedicated funds to the costs of timbering -- Enron accounting at its best!
These funds, plus the millions in Pittman-Robinson reimbursements, are available every year. There is no shortage of money for habitat improvement; there is, however, a shortage of will to spend it where it will do the most good.
The next time someone tells you that the PGC is underfunded and needs money for habitat work, ask them what happened to the habitat money from the last increase.