Possible New Regs In NJ?
01-11-2002, 08:59 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: jackson new jersey
Posts: 301
Possible New Regs In NJ?
I have heard from a biologist that the state is kicking around an idea that would allow two bucks per year. One with the bow, fall, extended, winter. One with the gun, buck season, permit season, and muzzleloader. If this is true, this would be fantastic in my eyes. It wouldn't be long before six and eight points were a dime a dozen. This is just what I was told, who knows how true it is?
01-12-2002, 07:53 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ USA
Posts: 237
RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
Well, I guess they are going to have to do something, and it looks like that will be it. I would rather have them cut back on the gluttonous slaughter of button bucks all winter long. That would also increase the number of bucks in the woods.
It becomes more clear every day that the sportsmans clubs of NJ have the Game Commission by the gonads. The clubs don't want to give up the opportunity to have long seasons, do big drives and kill everything that moves. So we will never see the anterless slaughter go away. Limiting to buck kill to two will not be the magic pill you seem to think it will be, at least not without eliminating the winter anterless season. It will result in more anterled deer in the woods for six-day firearm, and I'm sure you will see those harvest numbers go up. But I don't think it will translate into many more big bucks each fall. They will just be distributed more evenly among shotgun hunters. For example, a club with 60 members that anually takes about 25 deer now, will probably increase their take to 40 or 45 during 6-day firearm.
You want more bucks, and bigger bucks in the woods? It's simple, stop killing all the buttons in Jan. and Feb.. Until hunters, all hunters, change their attitude, you will not improve the hunting in this State. The Division of Fish and Wildlife, and the Game Commission, have successfully transformed hunters in NJ from wildlife conservationists to exterminationists. That is the attitude that must be changed.
I'll give you another good example. In the news release about the six-day firearm harvest, Andy Burnett is quoted as saying the deer population is about 170,000 whitetails, with 19 percent being bucks. That's bull. He is not counting button bucks as bucks. He is using the 19 percent number to justify killing so many anterless deer (which include bucks) to get the buck to doe ratio in better balance. Well, if they would stop killing so many button bucks each year, the buck to doe ratio would come into balance nicely. However, to cut back on the long gun seasons with unlimited tags would make those who want to kill 40 deer a year unhappy. And those are the same people controlling six seats on the Game Commission at this time.
Look into the regulations of the States that produce the largest deer, and many of them, each season. They all have one thing in common, one thing that is not happening in NJ. That one thing is limited gun pressure on deer. I don't think the genetics in those states are any better than many places in NJ. Take a look at the State record non-typical, scored 203 4/8, and was only 3 1/2 years old. I can show you pictures of many other bucks that grew great racks at 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 years old. We also have very good nutrition and soil quality in this State, and food availablity is only a problem in a few areas, most notably the Pine Barrens.
The one reason we will never have good quality hunting is because hunters in NJ want to be able to kill big numbers of deer every year. Plain and simple. We are all to blame. We all do have some say in how many deer are taken each year. Even if the game commission doesn't want to limit the take, we hunters can do so because we ultimately control how many deer get taken each year. Start putting pressure on your friends and club members to lose the "if it's brown it's down" mentality. Only take the number of deer you personally will consume. There are a few area's that have problems with over population, and guy's in those area's know they can afford to take a few more deer. However, I'm, writing this to all those others who hunt in the area's of the state where deer/people conflicts are not a problem. I spoke to a guy in a club that hunts in zone 31. The deer density down there is about 15 to 20 deer per square mile. They killed just under 60 deer in muzzleloader, and over 40 in permit shotgun, that was before the January portion of it even started. You know what, next year they will complain to the game commission that there aren't as many bucks in the woods any more. They will suggest something like only two bucks per year be allowed, so that they will have more targets in six-day firearm, yet they will kill another 100 deer in the permit seasons. They are already complaining because their take during buck week this year was down 40 percent from last year, but can't see that it could be because last year, hunting the same woods as they did this year, they killed 95 deer in the permit seasons. Sometimes we hunters really do make ourselves look stupid.
It becomes more clear every day that the sportsmans clubs of NJ have the Game Commission by the gonads. The clubs don't want to give up the opportunity to have long seasons, do big drives and kill everything that moves. So we will never see the anterless slaughter go away. Limiting to buck kill to two will not be the magic pill you seem to think it will be, at least not without eliminating the winter anterless season. It will result in more anterled deer in the woods for six-day firearm, and I'm sure you will see those harvest numbers go up. But I don't think it will translate into many more big bucks each fall. They will just be distributed more evenly among shotgun hunters. For example, a club with 60 members that anually takes about 25 deer now, will probably increase their take to 40 or 45 during 6-day firearm.
You want more bucks, and bigger bucks in the woods? It's simple, stop killing all the buttons in Jan. and Feb.. Until hunters, all hunters, change their attitude, you will not improve the hunting in this State. The Division of Fish and Wildlife, and the Game Commission, have successfully transformed hunters in NJ from wildlife conservationists to exterminationists. That is the attitude that must be changed.
I'll give you another good example. In the news release about the six-day firearm harvest, Andy Burnett is quoted as saying the deer population is about 170,000 whitetails, with 19 percent being bucks. That's bull. He is not counting button bucks as bucks. He is using the 19 percent number to justify killing so many anterless deer (which include bucks) to get the buck to doe ratio in better balance. Well, if they would stop killing so many button bucks each year, the buck to doe ratio would come into balance nicely. However, to cut back on the long gun seasons with unlimited tags would make those who want to kill 40 deer a year unhappy. And those are the same people controlling six seats on the Game Commission at this time.
Look into the regulations of the States that produce the largest deer, and many of them, each season. They all have one thing in common, one thing that is not happening in NJ. That one thing is limited gun pressure on deer. I don't think the genetics in those states are any better than many places in NJ. Take a look at the State record non-typical, scored 203 4/8, and was only 3 1/2 years old. I can show you pictures of many other bucks that grew great racks at 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 years old. We also have very good nutrition and soil quality in this State, and food availablity is only a problem in a few areas, most notably the Pine Barrens.
The one reason we will never have good quality hunting is because hunters in NJ want to be able to kill big numbers of deer every year. Plain and simple. We are all to blame. We all do have some say in how many deer are taken each year. Even if the game commission doesn't want to limit the take, we hunters can do so because we ultimately control how many deer get taken each year. Start putting pressure on your friends and club members to lose the "if it's brown it's down" mentality. Only take the number of deer you personally will consume. There are a few area's that have problems with over population, and guy's in those area's know they can afford to take a few more deer. However, I'm, writing this to all those others who hunt in the area's of the state where deer/people conflicts are not a problem. I spoke to a guy in a club that hunts in zone 31. The deer density down there is about 15 to 20 deer per square mile. They killed just under 60 deer in muzzleloader, and over 40 in permit shotgun, that was before the January portion of it even started. You know what, next year they will complain to the game commission that there aren't as many bucks in the woods any more. They will suggest something like only two bucks per year be allowed, so that they will have more targets in six-day firearm, yet they will kill another 100 deer in the permit seasons. They are already complaining because their take during buck week this year was down 40 percent from last year, but can't see that it could be because last year, hunting the same woods as they did this year, they killed 95 deer in the permit seasons. Sometimes we hunters really do make ourselves look stupid.
01-13-2002, 06:19 AM
#7
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: jackson new jersey
Posts: 301
RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
CrossPile was at it again, putting on drives yesturday with their army of members. Man are these guys venison hungry. I would like to see giant deer drives outlawed. They kill as much as they can so they will have enough venison for their fund raising "wild game" dinner. Isn't it against the law for me to sell you a deer? I don't see the difference if I sold you a whole deer, or sold you a processed deer that has been cooked. The difference is alot of the people who work for fish and wildlife attend this dinner, including the game wardens.
01-13-2002, 11:15 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ocean County NJ USA
Posts: 100
RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
As far a clubs driving deer during 6 day gun I am all for it. It is the slaughterfests during permit season that is killing us. You dont see them here posting on there behalf. I know several guys who go on drives in zone 51 area and I refuse to take part in it. There answer is "THE STATE WANTS US TO" what a load of crap. As far as letting you take 3 bucks during the 3 types of season they could try 2 bucks per year period one 3 inch and above and the other a QDM buck and you decide what season you shoot them in with one doe per season for a total of 5 per year. that would be 8 deer for your table "if you could eat all that". Now that would be fair all the way around.
01-13-2002, 07:11 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OLD TAPPAN NJ USA
Posts: 533
RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
Is there really a chance that the state will limit or even end the Jan/Feb hunts?? I am growing less optimistic and am getting the feeling that hunting in NJ has taken a drastic turn for the worse and we just have to get used to it.
I cant believe the stupid a$$'s in Zone 2 that complain about the lack of deer and quality bucks when these guys bang away all Dec/Jan! Really, how many deer can a person actually use??
I hope that we all email/call/write the state as I have done and others on this board b/c we are now on the downside slope of the hunting curve in NJ.
Looking at the world from 15 feet up.
I cant believe the stupid a$$'s in Zone 2 that complain about the lack of deer and quality bucks when these guys bang away all Dec/Jan! Really, how many deer can a person actually use??
I hope that we all email/call/write the state as I have done and others on this board b/c we are now on the downside slope of the hunting curve in NJ.
Looking at the world from 15 feet up.