So do you guys think that we are heading in the right direction??? You know with hunters quitting, youths losing interest, the current head honchos taunting kill more, kill more. Are these policies the only answer?? Is there anything else that can be done??

I'm just wandering, Not saying I have the answers. I predict the PGC will not last very long, then What??


I usually hunt private land, but that doesn't mean squat!!

Lots of questions. I will take a stab at a few of them. Are we heading in the right direction? I think so, but that is a very unpopular position on message boards. I like the idea of letting the button bucks and spikes grow another year. Not sure why some can't tell the difference between a button buck and a mature doe. Herd reduction? It was necessary in some areas. Overbrowsing by deer has been a problem for many years.
I don't think many hunters are quitting. Some guys who weren't really into it gave up because it is harder now. I can't speak for others. I would probably hunt if deer were extinct and I had to use an atlatl or whatever those things are. Not everyone is as crazy as I am.
I don't know how else to correct the problems caused by too many deer, other than to reduce the population for awhile and let the forests recover.

I hope you are wrong about the game commission. What do you think will take its place? DCNR? The politicians in the legislature? God help us if the politicians take over deer management. If the DCNR takes over, us hunters have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Your last question, the answer would suck either way!!!

I think you have the right slant on the fewer numbers of hunters in the woods in recent years, and would like to share some of my observations on this. For one thing, the huntung population as a whole is aging. Lots of us are reaching or at Social Security age. Many incur health problems as they grow older. This changes the way we have to hunt. When I was a younger man, there were no hillsides too steep or tangled. There was no distance that was too far. The days weren't long enough. I pulled deer out of places that today, I wouldn't venture near. Sad, but true, it happens to ALL of us, sooner or later, and we have learned or will learn to cope as best we can with our abilities or disabilities. The tjought of not being able to be "out there" somewhere on the first day of whatever season is a scary thing.
Younger people have lost interest for a number of reasons, in my mind. Urban sprawl has, and is taking over lots of property that used to be huntable ground. I used to get home from school in the afternoon, change into hunting clothes, grab a gun and be gone out the back door in a flash. Those old hunting areas of mine are housing developments now. You can't fire a BB gun there.
Lack of game causes lack of interest. Rabbits are nowhere near as plentiful as they used to be. Ringnecks are hard to come by, generally. There are still some squirrels to shoot at. Kids can have a hard time trying to find someone to take them hunting. Lots of pressure from the "anti's" about hunting, and the horrors of gun ownership. These kids are being pushed harder and harder to do better and better,quicker and faster. They don't know how to relax and enjoy the outdoors. Thankfully, I never had to endure the slam-ram fast paced enviornment they do. Cell phones---camera phones--text messaging--instant and constant communication--computers--e-mail--instant gratification-- and you wonder why they don't have the patience to sit quietly in the woods and wait for a deer or turkey to come along? It's not their fault--it's just how they are being raised to contend with and participate in the lifestyle that is today.
I don't know how they contened with the warp-speed daily goings-on. I do understand that every youngster that you see out in the woods with that wide-eyed look of wonderment and anticipation is a treasure. I hope they spread the word to their friends. I hope someone will be available to take them to hunter's ed. classes. I hope.

I think we did lose the casual one day a year guys, but deer hunting is still huge where I'm from. I meet people almost every day and end up talking deer hunting with them. It amazes me how much people are into it, almost obsessed like me.

Do you ever have anything positive to say about hunters T?

Doug,there's a reservoir near us surrounded by water company land and state forest.In the beginning of HR this area was estimated at 38 DPSM.Obviously these numbers have been reduced.The forest here always had poor regen in a mixture of hemlocks,softwoods,and hardwoods.There are some old stripped mine land on the edge.However where the forest opens up at the reservoir there is incredible white oak regen.The trees are so thick it's ashame they can't be thinned out.Just 25 yards in under the thick canopy and there's barely any regen.Hopefully I can get back there this year for some pics.If you want to take a hike some time PM me for directions.
I'm not one of the people that want a deer behind every tree.Personally I think the hunting got fun when the numbers approached 20 DPSM.
As for the people in 2G complaining some of the problems come from Alt and his promises and a lack of communication.The goals started out at 15 DPSM but when places like Tioga state forest hit 8 and still Dmaps were being handed out it got to some folks.I wouldn't waste my time hunting where the numbers are that low and I doubt most others would either.
I'm seeing regen but it's mostly beech,cherry,and maple.There's plenty of food in our area which is a mixture of woodlots,farms,and strippings yet the herd was drastically reduced.I witnessed the overharvesting from the hunters themselves.So I agree with a previous poster who said hunters are the ones to make that decision.
I don't doubt your local forester is responsible and cares about deer hunting.It's Rendell and the left wing liberals he appointed that I don't trust.
Denny,I agree the topic in Potter county wasn't about deer hunting and the speaker had a right to be frustrated.But the quote was "deer hunting is no longer a recreation"That wasn't taken out of context it was the true hope/and or feeling of the liberals running the DCNR.And it's a dangerous situation if they ever take over the PGC.Look no farther then NJ and their bear hunting fiasco.Looks doubtful that hunt will take place next year because the main proponent for that hunt got fired.To trust the DCNR is a mistake.

A lot of the best people I know are hunters. Hunters do a lot of good things but we also shoot ourselves in the foot in front of the general non-hunting public too. Which do you think they easily remember ?

I agree with that statement T.But we have to be careful and not take the stand of always being defensive and apologetic for hunting.I think sometimes we tend to do that.
Overall we have done alot more good then the few times we've made mistakes or said the wrong things.

germain,you say there's plenty of food but then you say most of the regneration is beech,cherry and maple.Maple is a preffered browse species but the other two are not.What you expect the deer to eat during the winter?The bottom line is,the herd crashedaround here after the winters of 2003 and 2004 because there wasn't enough browse.The habitat is terrible around here and having 38 dpsm is the reason we're in this situation.

I agree that regeneration isn't going to be the same under a close canopy as it is where it can get alot of light.That's all part of forest succession though.As the forest matures,the carrying capacity is greatly decreased for many years until it slowly increases a little once mast begins to be produced.unfortunatly,if all you have it beech,maple and cherry,mast is very limited and the carrying capacity would be much lower.I didn't want to believe it myself Rich but we had way too many deer for too long and now we'll have to live with alot less for quite a while.