RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

good post and truth.thanks

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

More conspiracy theory! Do you have any evidence to support this claim or is this just more unsubstantiated BS.

And of course the educated people at one of Pennsylvania's premeir universities can't possibly know more than a bunch of kids!

And now some hunters claim "Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA"

I think this sums up the whole thing for you Mountain Lion buffs. You want to believe it and that's all there is to it. There is no verifiable evidence to support your belief and every reputable source will tell you this but that doesn't matter. You're going to believe anyway. How can you expect any thinking person to take you seriously? You even naively draw an analogy with belief in God. Well I guess this explains why these ML threads never go anywhere. One side demands evidence the other believes simply because they want to.

Look, I'll admit I was wrong to openly laugh at you guys. But make no mistake about it. Lot's of people are indeed laughing and even if they are being polite and not doing it right in your face they are still laughing and you/we are still loosing respect.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

I really rest my case. Illogical logic!
You are obviously "collegiate"
Withboxes of arrowheads found, most notably in a neighbors horsefield, we certainly were mistaken. The "study" consisted of digging a two foot hole every 100 yards or so....brilliantly collegiate and 100% indisputable!
Premier work!

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

O.K. so do I believe an internet nobody and obviousconspiracy theory nut case with no credentials whatsoever or do I believe the educated people from Penn State University with degrees and life times spent studying such subjects? That's the choice you present. Well you all will have to excuse me but when presented with such lunacy how can I help but laugh! Livbucks, it seems that with each post you just keep making yourself look more foolish. You are really arogant you know. You actually think you know more than all the professional agencies and universites and you have the audacity to ridicule them! Oh please...

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

More insults and Questions from your end. A sure sign you've lost your ground on this topic.

Where is YOUR Evidence other than the mumble jumbo from the 70's OOppps Sorry I forgot there was something mentioned in the year 1991.
OH Yea - lets not forget some outdated premier university authorities that you keep spewing.Were you part of this elite premier group of University students that were out for 2-3 days,came back and wrote a term paper on the elusive PA ML.

I'm sure all these Premier Kids are out in the woods every day like the lisc
hunters,trappers,farmers etc...that are all liars,cheats,thieves and frauds and full of BS.

Like I said in prior post what about the 1% that just might know what they saw was a ML.They just happened to leave the ole Canon Digital at home that day and don't need or care about proving anything to anybody.

Trust me when I say the only people laughing here are the folks reading your posts.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Sylvan:

I started this post, becauseI have spent the better part of my entire life in the woods of PA fishing, hunting, trapping, and just about anything else that can be done outside.I grew up in Williamsport, and we had a cabin (that we sold last year) in Potter county between Galeton and Coudersport.My grandfather and his friends erected that cabin back in 1943, so our family has been traipsing around the wilds of PA for many, many years.

During the past 35 years, I have had countless experiences in the wild that would be "unfathomable" or "unbelievable" to others that have not spent the same amount of time out of doors. I have truly learned that Mother Nature is nothing short of remarkable, and animal behavior is quite often unexpected and most of it goes unseen by human eyes and ears.

Formany years, I had heard claims from other outdoorsmen and women that claimed to have seen these creatures up close and personal. I was always skeptical, but I kept an open mind, especially considering that some of these individuals actually spent even more time afield than myself. One of them had actually hunted these animals in western states, so he gave me no reason to doubt his identification abilities.

I have never been fortunate enough to see one myself. However, when my brother whom lives in Huntersville and his wife told me about one they saw - that was good enough for me to believe. My brother and I are extremely close, and I trust what he tells me UNCONDITIONALLY. I also trust my brother's observation abilities,(since hisvision is better than mine)and I know that his woodmanship is second to none. His wife is a woman of deep moral and religious convictions, so I trust her just as much as if she were my own flesh and blood. Most importantly,why would my own brother and sister-in-law lie to me about seeing a mountain lion?

Back 10-15 years ago, our family friends told me about seeing one in a pasture near their home. This was not a brief glimpse. The animal was in an open field long enough for the woman to call her husband upstairs from his gunsmith shop to come see it. They watched it for over 15 minutes before it went back into the woods. He is perhaps the most cynical and skeptical man I have ever met in my life (some would say "crotchety".) Yet he was adamant that what they saw was a mountain lion, since he had actually shot them out in western states.

In July of 2002, my uncle got one step closer by actually takingthe photograph I attached. People said "show me a photo" and I did. Now they claim, "prove that the photo was taken in PA." If only it would be easy to hold up a white sheet behind the animal with a current copy of the local dated newspaper then I could give you the proof that you require. However, anyone whom spends any amount of time in the wilds knows that a rare encounter with any wildlife is not something that happens in a controlled setting. The fact that my uncle was even able to get the critter on film is amazing to me. I will also say this one more time, "if you knew my uncle personally, you would have no reason to doubt his word or the validity of his photo."

My own brother and his wife saw one many years ago,two of my uncles, and one of my cousins saw one. The other claims I have heard were all from family friends that I know, respect and trust to be honest and truthful throughout their entire lives.

This is as close as I need to believe ... I do not require the concrete proof provided by seeing one with my own two eyes. However, you obviously do. I hope and pray that one day you will get that opportunity. However, in the interim, please do not poo-poo my stories or my photos, because you are essentially calling me and my family and friends "liars." I take that kind of insult very personally, becasue I have never given you (or anyone else here) any reason to do so. Until I do, please extend me the same level of coutesy that I would extend to you by accepting what I tell you is not a fabrication. I am not a teenager, I am not looking for any fame, and I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

I ask again: Why would anyonemake up a story about seeing a mountain lion in PA? Do you think Sproulman just woke up one day and said to himself "I think I will invent a preposterous story today!"

None of them had anything to gain by telling what they saw. None of them certainly have any ties to PETA as someone actually had the gall to type as all of them are hunters and fishermen.

As far as producing a dead body of a mountain lion in PA. If these critters are as rare and elusive as everyone believes, why would they be likely to be hit by a car? Most people I know try to avoid hitting animals with their car. How many times do you see coyotes lying dead on the side of the road? I think I have see one in my entire life.

These apex predators are not stupid and abundant like deer. In fact, they hunt and eat deer, so they obviously have to be a bit smarter or elsethey would starve.

Sadly, I suspectthat one of these days someone will shoot or trap one and provide the proof you require. However, I suspect that at that time, you will say "prove that it wasn't transported here from another state."

Just like with religion:there are believers and there are doubters. Sadly, you fall into the latter category. I tend to align with the former.

Perhaps some day we will get to meet in person, and you can then make your own decision as to whether I am someone to be trusted or not. Until then, I can assure you that mountain lions are definitely in PA. They may be escaped captive animals that have reverted to a wild state, they may be transplants from other states, or they may be transient passers by ... just like you and me.

If and when you do get your proof, I won't be sitting back saying "I told you so", but I hope that somewhere in your heart you will feel a tinge of pain for having essentially called good, decent and honest people liars for no damn good reason.

May you and your family (& everyone else here on this board) find health, wealth, peace, love and happiness in the New Year.

- Gr8ful

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

How many times do I have to tell you AJ, I MAKE NO CLAIM! I'm not trying to prove ANYTHING! It's the ML buffs here that are trying to prove what's sated so clearly in the title "Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA " and are failing at it miserably. All I've said (and on numerous occasions)is the professioinals that are in a position to know about such things ALL say there is no evidence to support the claim. I believe them over arrogant conspiracy nutcases with nocredentials whatsoever. How hard is that to understand? And talk about insults. You guys have been insulting the fine people at Penn State, the PGC and the other agencies thatrefuse to support your wild claimsfor pages now so don't give me that hypocritical holier than thou attitude.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Gr8,
Great Post.
I have been a Moderator/Member on this MB for many moons.I have read alot of pure BS over the years.I have learned early ony who can be trusted at their word and who cannot and where some of the expertice is derived, "Arm Chair" or what I refer to as "Walking Around Knowledge".

For whatever reason(s) I'm taking you at your word.I believe what your stating is accurate and there are/is a ML in PA.Further more as I stated in a prior thread, WHY NOT in PA.IMO you folks up there have ideal habitat and vast expanses of wilderness to support this animal(far more than Fla and they claim 50+- ML's).

You tell your Bro and his wife there is at least one believer out there.

Let me add one more thing.We had a confirmed ML in Delaware a few yrs back.After yrs of reports F&W finally(after the press got involved)admitted there was at least one maybe 2.I know for a fact some folks who were seeing these animals were afraid to talk about sitings due to all the ridicule and threats from disbelievers.

There are folks out there that just don't report the supposed unbelievable for any number of reasons.

Good Luck

AL

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Al:

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I can assure you I am not making any of this up.

I also know for a fact about the ML (or ML's)that were spotted in DE, because I lived in West Chester, PA when one of them was spotted several times in White Clay Creek Park (which borders PA and DE.)

The reports of that cat were widely reported in the Daily Local (the local Chester County newspaper) and F&G personnel definitely identified the animal's tracks. Theyeven tried to track it on horseback with trained ML tracking dogs. (Would the state (or anyone else) have actually gone through the time, expense and money to arrange to get ML tracking people, horsesand tracking dogs if theyknew the animaldidn't exist?) They did not find the animal, but they repeatedly reportedhow they knew it could easily escape being captured or treed, because it was known to be extremelysly and secretive.

I belive that they still have warning posters up at several of the parking areas in White Clay Creek Park that clearly say that a mountain lion was spotted in the area.

Do people really think they would take the time to post up warnings from something that doesn't exist?If so, they should get work making those other postings to warn against saber-tooth tigers, tyrannosaurus Rex's and Pterodactyls.

- Gr8ful

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

I grew up in Blossburg in Tioga co. and killed my first deer there in 1964, killed my last one there in 2005. I graduated from Penn State with an engineering degree in 1975. Yes Penn State so you can imagine I get a little sensitive when you guys make fun of it. I moved just over the border (15 miles)in to NY in I believe 1980 but I still own property near Bloss and still hunt there when I can and I fish Pine Creek and the Loyalsock for trout and the Susquahana near Williamsport for small mouth. Also hunt with my nephew a bit in theMontoursville area. Now I've heard these stories about ML's all my life too butnothing has ever been come of them other than more stories.

With all do respect to you and your uncle, my position is very simple. I'm faced with the choice of believing all the professionals I have mentioned over and over again or what I see posted here on the internet by people that have no identity and often say things that to me are just foolish. I choose to believe the professionals. I can't help it if you interpret that as me calling you a liar as I'm sticking with those with the credentials.

I don't know but people do it all the time. How many hoax photographs have there been? Others aren't making it up, they really believe they saw a mountain lion.

The quality of the picture is so poor that it is notclear the photo is of a mountain lion. Why not take it to the PGC or some other place that has the resources and the skills to analyze it and make a determination.