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NYSDEC is a joke
Just keeps getting worse and worse around here. Deer numbers are so low that even the clowns at the DEC had to come clean and admit it because they heard the rumbles of an all out revolt by hunters statewide. Of course they blamed it on "harsh winters".......you must be freakin' kidding me. Harsh winters??......anyone who has lived in this state knows very well that the last couple years have been no better or worse then our run of the mill NY winters. I can't friggin stand when I see them force feeding this BS to NY hunters with a straight face and expecting us all to just nod our heads in agreement like idiots who don't know any better and will believe anything.
What a coincidence that these "harsh winters" just happen to fall right after record slaughters of deer in NY due to the DEC giving out permits by the truckload........they were either too stupid to realize they were giving out too many permits and really had no idea of the actual herd count or they were too busy counting the money from extra license sales to care. Now that deer numbers are so low that you have entire camps not even seeing deer they want everyone to ride out the storm for a few years until the numbers get back to a respectable level. I have hunted for over 6 weeks now........perhaps more then I ever have in a single season before. At least 5 days a week with an average of probably 5-6 hours a day. I would say I have been in the woods for over 150 hours easily with bow and gun combined and there is still 19 days left to hunt including ML season. I have seen 1 racked buck in all that time.......that's right......ONE.....and he was a 4 pointer. I saw pitifully low numbers of deer......mostly does and 6 month olds. The rut was an all out joke. It hit right in shotgun season (which made the DEC happy I am sure) My brothers, friends, father, other hunting club members, and 99.9% of the guys I have talked with this year have had similar experiences. This is not a public land sob story either. I hunted private land more this year then I ever have. It is just an all out joke..........and it's not funny at all. I just can't believe they have screwed this place up so bad. The Saturday opener backfired right in their face even though they would never admit it. A lot of guys that used to take vacation for opening week didn't this year because of the opener on a weekend and thanksgiving on thursday. They hunted Sat and Sun morning and then went home and didn't come back until thursday (if at all). I have NEVER seen so few shotgun hunters in the woods after opening day..........I really think guys are just saying F' it after not seeing anything or hearing any shots on opening day and going home.......or not even going out at all. I hunted 90 acres of private property in Stueben county for opening weekend and all the surrounding property is is stocked with the orange army.........heard about 6 shots all opening day and 2 were from my dad and brother.......sunday we heard and saw NOTHING. What a rediculous and embarrassing example of what the DEC has managed to do even to private hunting land in it's big buck capital. Truely a sad situation. I cannot believe how hard I had to hunt this year to put meat in the freezer......I feel so sorry for the average Joe in NY that can only get out on the weekends or a few days here and there.......seriously, they should save their money and not even bother.......may as well spend the $68 on the powerball because the odds aren't much worse. Can't wait to go out all weekend and see nothing again...........just got back a few hours ago after walking for 4 hours through yesterday's snow and not finding one single friggin track. Thanks a lot NYSDEC........thanks for being so stupid and ruining the deer herd in NY. At least PA got a smokescreen fake story behind the destruction of their herd........our DEC wasn't even smart enough to come up with anything better then "harsh winter" Morons. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Sorry to hear about your tough season so far. I too hunt in Steuben over by Bath - Savona. All people in my camp hated the Saturday opener. Alot fewer shot than normal too (and we border 6,000 acres of state land). I guess we were lucky as most everyone saw deer on opening day and many got shots - myself included but I hammered a maple tree instead of the doe. Only 2 doe tags for 7 hunters too. Only 2 guys saw antlers all weekend - small spike and a young 4 - left em to grow. We did find a beautiful 10 pt. skull (squirrels chewed the bejezzus out of it and 2 other buck skulls a nice 8 and "stumpy" a deer head with nice thick horns busted off about 2 inches from the skull as a result of a fight with a Pontiac we think. All in all a blah season so - we usually have alot more hanging in the wood shed by now.....
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I can't speak for all of NY, but I doalso agree that the deer pops in my areas of 6k & 7m are down. I knew heading into the season it was going to be a rough yr. Based on the low & no permits for these two areas, and my scouting efforts before the 9/27 archery opener. I took 20 days off from work, and hunted everyone of them plus my wknds off. I put in more hrs this year during archery then have in past. Not that its a bad thing, but I have zero deer in my freezer, 0! The Sat. opener in my 7m area, private surrounded by public, actually had more hunters then I expected with no permits for 7m. But no where's near the shooting. Sun. the woods was dead, and I've only seen 1 hunter around that area since, while out. Oh I saw 1 doe opening day. I began hunting this area in 7m in 1998, and we've noticed a significant decrease in the deer pop since then. The surrounding camps all are reporting the same to us in our conversations.
I too don't buy the harsh winter stuff. Our winters in NY are nothing like they used to be. When was the last time we got hit with a 4ft plus snowstorm, and stranded for couple days? Where's the 20plus below temps for wks on end I recall growing up. The DEC issued too many yrs of double permits in 7M, and lowered the population significantly. 6k is still being issued permits this yr, by preference pt. But I know several that have them. Many were denied upon purchasing license's, only to recieve them in the mail at a later date. Last season the township in 6k I hunt had more bucks taken per square mile, than the township I hunt in 7m. This per DEC reports on their websight. So that explains their reasons for permits in 6k. But trust me the deer aren't here this year, and the permits in 6k should cease. I also believe the DECALS system had alot to do with the population decrease. The first yr. I heard horror stories of machines kicking out numerous unaccountable numbers of permits to single persons. I know a guy who got 13 that year. I saw them! How could the DEC keep track of the population under those circumstances, when its own permit quotas were way off. All in all I guess we just have to deal with it, and hope it gets turned back around. I'd like to see the DEC back off on permit numbers again across the state, and especially in 7m & 6k. I do realize the 20-30 deer I used to see on the shotgun opener days, are in the past, and probably never be again. But I do think a happy medium above what it is now could be reached, and maintained. For now I guess some of us will have to get used to the fact of going deerless, and not seeing much in our efforts. I don't like it anymore then the next guy. But unfortunately were stuck with it for now. Trust me I'll be speaking out this offseason. For some reason the DEC is failing to realize what sells deer license's is big bucks, and lots of deer. NY has some nice bucks, but in all honesty we don't have alot of the 160's & up bucks you read about. Now we don't have the deer population in some areas either. I can walk around with a camera, and enjoy the woods for free. Why pay for it!! |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I hunt Northern and southern ulster county. The DEC has to stop giving slaughter permits to these apple farmers and letting all their buddies shoot the deer all summer long. They don't even pick the apples anymore.. I just dont get it. I can take anyone right now to a corner of one orchard and show you 15 dead deer.. it is sick.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I live in Herkimer County and we had2 bad winters, 2002 and 2003. In 2002 I found 37 dead deer and in 2003 I found 17. On top of the 2 bad winters, hunters are shooting more doesso there will be less deer. Every time an adultdoe is killed so are 2 unbornfawns. I have nothing against killing a doe but ifthere areno deer inan area don't shoot the adult does. Who is pulling the trigger? Not the DEC! Just because someone has four tags they don't have to kill four deer. It's impossible for the DEC to know how many deer are in each area. It should be up the the hunter's discretion how many deer they kill. If you have no deer inan area why wouldanyone then go out and hunt to kill the last one? On a brighter note maybe you are seeing less deer due to the warm weather. This fall has been unseasonably warm. Around here when it is warm it's like a ghost town and I swear there are no deer alive on this earththan when the temp drops below 30 it seems the deer appear out of nowhere. I hope thats theproblem. my site: www.pbase.com/mlo3135127 & www.wildturkey.smugmug.com
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
atlasman, i would love to see the report. You know since i been there I never saw a buck in Northern NY, of course up there if it has antlers, even spikes it is fair game. And you are right, you can get one with muzzle loader, one with bow, one with gun, and if you are lucky or have land, you can get two permits for does! And that does not include using last years tag to shoot anything! Yes, I think about time the get new game managers at state. Really would like to see the report though where they mention it! [:@]
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
hi i hunt 3h, last year was pathetic, this year after passing a spike 6 times i took him he was the only buck i saw , the area i hunt to most would be the perfict set up , acorns so thick on the ground , that you could slip and fall on them if not careful , plenty of cover, playing the wind, i think the , lack of deer is compounded by coyotes , bad management, winter stress and to some extent unlawfull hunters who cannot stop hunting who just keep killing , killing is my term for sombody who cant stop hunting when hes done and tagged out. around 3h there were no management permits this year, so they apply for a different zone with a lot of permits and hunt 3h with them , whos to moniter where they were harvisted? and also permits can be transfered to such an outlaw , who can kill as many deer in our zone that he can put his sights on . i think the nydec needs to change there prioritys and crack down on these individules. just my oppinion
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I hunt 7F and I will say this is the worst yr since I started hunting in 1994. I also remember going out and any givin day seeing 20-30 deer. I saw 3 does and a 4 pt all bow season on the 58 acres I hunt.I don`t know what is to blame. I do agree that the DEC is giving out way to many doe permits, but we don`t need to shoot the does. In the11 yrs I`ve been hunting I`ve only shot one doe.The 6 guys I hunt with all believe that for every doe we shoot we could be killing one or two bucks. I also call in all my doe tags evanthough I didn`t shoot any. I just hope it gets better around here. I got 2 sons who want to hunt but do`t know if they will stick wih it if they don`t see anything.
Mike |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I hunted 90 acres of private property in Stueben county for opening weekend and all the surrounding property is is stocked with the orange army.........heard about 6 shots all opening day and 2 were from my dad and brother.......sunday we heard and saw NOTHING. What a rediculous and embarrassing example of what the DEC has managed to do even to private hunting land in it's big buck capital. Truely a sad situation. I don't know what to make of the past 3 years. In 2002 we had one of the best seasons that we've ever had in this area. In 2003 things were slower and the past two have plain sucked. What I don't understand is that I saw more nice bucks around the house this summer and fall than I have in the past several years combined. There were no shortage of does/fawns either. Once the end of October rolled around the deer just seemed to disappear. I saw plenty of nice bucks while out spotlighting too. I agree that the whole "harsh winter" thing is a joke. If anything has lower the deer pop. its been issuing an overabundance of doe permits.I believe that the lack of access to hunting land is one of the major problems facing the state's deer management.The amount of land that has changed hands in this area over the past several years is unbelievable. In my hunting area I strongly believe that our lack of deer sighting thus far (despite numerous drives) has been that 400 acres or so of the best bedding cover in the whole area has been posted and put off limits completely. We've killed 7 bucks off of this one drive before and have pushed out over a dozen bucks in a single drive here. Without anyone getting these deer up and moving around...why would they leave the security of this cover during daylight? On Christmas day last year I went for a drive around and counted 72 deer in the two fields bordering this 400 acre block of cover. In fact, one of my neighbors said that all of the big bucks he was watching before season showed back uponce season ended. Can't wait to go out all weekend and see nothing again...........just got back a few hours ago after walking for 4 hours through yesterday's snow and not finding one single friggin track. In summary....I do believe that the deer pop. is definately down from where it was several years ago...but I don't believe that its currently at "desperation levels" in this area. Good luck for the rest of the season. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: salty I hunt Northern and southern ulster county. The DEC has to stop giving slaughter permits to these apple farmers and letting all their buddies shoot the deer all summer long. They don't even pick the apples anymore.. I just dont get it. I can take anyone right now to a corner of one orchard and show you 15 dead deer.. it is sick. I have seen that horrible sight once in my life as well.........a farmer with nuisance permits had a ditch full of dead deer just rotting away. [:@] |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: mlo3135127 I have nothing against killing a doe but ifthere areno deer inan area don't shoot the adult does. Who is pulling the trigger? Not the DEC! Just because someone has four tags they don't have to kill four deer. The solution is simple........less tags. I couldn't care less if they imposed a statewide ban on shooting does for 2 years or more. Fine by me. That will NEVER happen though because they want the herd slaughtered down to minimal levels.......as long as they can continue to get gullable hunters to go along for the ride and keep buying licenses by believing all the BS stories they tell about ever expanding numbers......why would they change? It's impossible for the DEC to know how many deer are in each area. It should be up the the hunter's discretion how many deer they kill. If you have no deer inan area why wouldanyone then go out and hunt to kill the last one? |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: WNY Bowhunter Where in Steuben County were you hunting? |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Well, it is 12:30 and I just got home from walking all morning after an hour stand session and as expected it sucked big time. Me and my brother went.......no deer........about 4 inches of fresh snow and I could count the number of tracks found on one hand. When you can walk for about 3 hours in fresh snow and barely find any tracks you know there is a problem.
Can't wait to read how wonderful this deer season is going in the Sunday paper tomorrow :eek: I wonder if we have the most incompetent DEC in the country??........How much worse could they be? |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: salty I hunt Northern and southern ulster county. The DEC has to stop giving slaughter permits to these apple farmers and letting all their buddies shoot the deer all summer long. They don't even pick the apples anymore.. I just dont get it. I can take anyone right now to a corner of one orchard and show you 15 dead deer.. it is sick. a food bank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
It's impossible for the DEC to know how many deer are in each area. It should be up the the hunter's discretion how many deer they kill. If you have no deer inan area why wouldanyone then go out and hunt to kill the last one? Again.......in theory you are correct.......but when the DEC is giving out truckloads of tags to everyone in town this sends the message that they want a bunch of deer taken out of that area.........So I don't see how a hunter is supposed to not shoot anything when the DEC is telling them to shoot everything. A single hunter can not (and should not be forced to) make a decision of how many deer to kill based on it's effect on the big picture........that is what the DEC is for. Yes this is what for the DEC is for but when they keep giving out tags then it`s up to the hunter`s to pass on deer in thier area if they think the pop is down. I got 3 does that are staying on the 58 acres I hunt and my wife and I have passed on them almost everyday. We hope atleast one of them is carrying a baby. If it gets any worse in this state I think us hunters need to come up with a game plan. mike |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: atlasman Just keeps getting worse and worse around here. Deer numbers are so low that even the clowns at the DEC had to come clean and admit it because they heard the rumbles of an all out revolt by hunters statewide. Of course they blamed it on "harsh winters".......you must be freakin' kidding me. Harsh winters??......anyone who has lived in this state knows very well that the last couple years have been no better or worse then our run of the mill NY winters. I can't friggin stand when I see them force feeding this BS to NY hunters with a straight face and expecting us all to just nod our heads in agreement like idiots who don't know any better and will believe anything. What a coincidence that these "harsh winters" just happen to fall right after record slaughters of deer in NY due to the DEC giving out permits by the truckload........they were either too stupid to realize they were giving out too many permits and really had no idea of the actual herd count or they were too busy counting the money from extra license sales to care. Now that deer numbers are so low that you have entire camps not even seeing deer they want everyone to ride out the storm for a few years until the numbers get back to a respectable level. I have hunted for over 6 weeks now........perhaps more then I ever have in a single season before. At least 5 days a week with an average of probably 5-6 hours a day. I would say I have been in the woods for over 150 hours easily with bow and gun combined and there is still 19 days left to hunt including ML season. I have seen 1 racked buck in all that time.......that's right......ONE.....and he was a 4 pointer. I saw pitifully low numbers of deer......mostly does and 6 month olds. The rut was an all out joke. It hit right in shotgun season (which made the DEC happy I am sure) My brothers, friends, father, other hunting club members, and 99.9% of the guys I have talked with this year have had similar experiences. This is not a public land sob story either. I hunted private land more this year then I ever have. It is just an all out joke..........and it's not funny at all. I just can't believe they have screwed this place up so bad. The Saturday opener backfired right in their face even though they would never admit it. A lot of guys that used to take vacation for opening week didn't this year because of the opener on a weekend and thanksgiving on thursday. They hunted Sat and Sun morning and then went home and didn't come back until thursday (if at all). I have NEVER seen so few shotgun hunters in the woods after opening day..........I really think guys are just saying F' it after not seeing anything or hearing any shots on opening day and going home.......or not even going out at all. I hunted 90 acres of private property in Stueben county for opening weekend and all the surrounding property is is stocked with the orange army.........heard about 6 shots all opening day and 2 were from my dad and brother.......sunday we heard and saw NOTHING. What a rediculous and embarrassing example of what the DEC has managed to do even to private hunting land in it's big buck capital. Truely a sad situation. I cannot believe how hard I had to hunt this year to put meat in the freezer......I feel so sorry for the average Joe in NY that can only get out on the weekends or a few days here and there.......seriously, they should save their money and not even bother.......may as well spend the $68 on the powerball because the odds aren't much worse. Can't wait to go out all weekend and see nothing again...........just got back a few hours ago after walking for 4 hours through yesterday's snow and not finding one single friggin track. Thanks a lot NYSDEC........thanks for being so stupid and ruining the deer herd in NY. At least PA got a smokescreen fake story behind the destruction of their herd........our DEC wasn't even smart enough to come up with anything better then "harsh winter" Morons. Seen no other hunters or heard more shooting than the year before. I agree with your assessment of our season so far in NY. I hunted 10 out of 13 days the begining of November during the bow season, hardly any deer seen. The rut was a joke!! Never heard any grunting, or seen any chasing during the bow or gun seasons!!! Seems that the deer hunting in NY is getting worse every year!! I don't know if it's a coyote problem, or that they have been shooting way to many does over that last 5 years? But the DEC better wake up soon!! |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: stretchhunts I hunt 7F and I will say this is the worst yr since I started hunting in 1994. I also remember going out and any givin day seeing 20-30 deer. I saw 3 does and a 4 pt all bow season on the 58 acres I hunt.I don`t know what is to blame. I do agree that the DEC is giving out way to many doe permits, but we don`t need to shoot the does. In the11 yrs I`ve been hunting I`ve only shot one doe.The 6 guys I hunt with all believe that for every doe we shoot we could be killing one or two bucks. I also call in all my doe tags evanthough I didn`t shoot any. I just hope it gets better around here. I got 2 sons who want to hunt but do`t know if they will stick wih it if they don`t see anything. Mike you are only adding to the problem when you call in DMP and you haven't actually filled them. The DEC bases all of their decisions on harvest. Harvest a lot - there must be too many deer. Didn't harvest enough? OOps, there must be fewer deer than we thought. By saying you got a doe when you didn't, you are leading the DEC to believe there are more deer than there truly are. You should stop doing that. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
i think they are handing out too many permits, but if hunters are out there filling all their tags and then complaining that the DEC gave out to many, they should be blaming themselves for killing all the deer. The hunters have to take some responsibility too, along with the DEC who will hopefully cut back on tags next season.
what i dont get is how doe tags are used to control populations, yet every NY hunter can shoot at least one buck. A doe can produce two off spring, but a buck can breed several doe and produce even more offspring. Am i looking at this the wrong? |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Hammondsport...........near Urbana. As for today...we saw lots on tracks in every woods we drove and saw several does and a small buck but didn't put any on the ground. Too bad ya can't eat tracks. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: tj_cubin what i dont get is how doe tags are used to control populations, yet every NY hunter can shoot at least one buck. A doe can produce two off spring, but a buck can breed several doe and produce even more offspring. Am i looking at this the wrong? 1 buck could service 100 does. we need does to actually have the fawns. If we couldn't shoot any does, and only a few bucks survived...the herd would grow. The opposite is not true. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ok thesource, i see it from that side as well. that it only takes a few bucks, but more does to produce the offspring. I gotcha
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
tj cubin -
My son played lacrosse in Sackett's Harbor Tournament the last 2 years. Beautiful place. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Went out all afternoon with 4 other guys...........put on drives......pushed every set of pines, brush and thick crap we could find.
No deer..........couple old tracks...........another lousy day in the NY deer woods thanks to the DEC. Nothing like spending 8 hours in the woods with other guys and covering miles of ground and not even seeing a tail. What a mockery. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: thesource ORIGINAL: stretchhunts I hunt 7F and I will say this is the worst yr since I started hunting in 1994. I also remember going out and any givin day seeing 20-30 deer. I saw 3 does and a 4 pt all bow season on the 58 acres I hunt.I don`t know what is to blame. I do agree that the DEC is giving out way to many doe permits, but we don`t need to shoot the does. In the11 yrs I`ve been hunting I`ve only shot one doe.The 6 guys I hunt with all believe that for every doe we shoot we could be killing one or two bucks. I also call in all my doe tags evanthough I didn`t shoot any. I just hope it gets better around here. I got 2 sons who want to hunt but do`t know if they will stick wih it if they don`t see anything. Mike you are only adding to the problem when you call in DMP and you haven't actually filled them. The DEC bases all of their decisions on harvest. Harvest a lot - there must be too many deer. Didn't harvest enough? OOps, there must be fewer deer than we thought. By saying you got a doe when you didn't, you are leading the DEC to believe there are more deer than there truly are. You should stop doing that. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
atlasman -
I believe that you are not having a good year - but I think you are off base to blame the DEC for it all. The System isn't perfect - but its not as bad as you think. If the DEC is giving out Doe permits for your WMU - then they have good reason to think the herd can support some numbers of does harvested. In 7M - not even landowners could get doe permits this year - and its a LARGE WMU - last year it was very limited. Now - its not Micro management - and your exact hunting acreage may be way down. Maybe it will change on its own, but probably not.Get involved ant call your Region Manager - maybe he can share the harvest information for your town with you. Like PA - there are alot of hunters in NY - yet the Hunter Numbers are decreasing - so the DEC is trying to allow similar deer numbersto be harvested - by less people- for the future. In some areas I agree they Jumped the gun ( coupled by 2 of the worst winters in 100years - back to back - really - no joke!) - and there are less deer than desired. I think they are trying to fix that now. FH |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
i tend to think that the situation will correct itself. If you are having a bad season this year, and less deer are being harvested, those few deer that survive unscathed will reproduce and yeild a better population next year.
And if DEC sees the lower harvest this year and either keeps DMPs the same or slightly lowers them next year, the population can recover quite quickly. maybe im stating the obvious here, i dont know. Populations fluctuate, and a lower harvest this year *may* translate into a better one enxt year. I know this doesn't fill your freezer this year, but if you are blaming it on DMPs, then someones freezer has been getting filled. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
This has nothing to do with "this" year. This has been a trend for who knows how many years now. Deer numbers are WAY down from years past. Yet, all you hear out of the DEC is how their numbers are spiraling out of control and we need to kill more and more and more of them every year........less hunters and more deer blah blah blah. BS!!!! Anyone who has spent time in the woods of NY over the last couple decades knows that you don't see anywhere the numbers of deer that you used to. Back in the days of guys wearing the doe permit arm band and 5 guys to a permit there were deer all over the place..........now when you are lucky to see a couple deer together......every guy in the woods has a pocket full of permits. WTF?? It's backwards.
NYSDEC better wake up.........they are a big reason for declining hunting numbers. How in the hell can they expect anyone to get a kid interested in hunting when that kid goes out and sits in the freezing cold for days at a time and sees no deer?? My freezer is full...........always is. The big difference now is that we have to hunt rediculous amounts of days and hours to accomplish what we have done quite easily in the past. Most guys aren't willing or able to hunt as long or hard as we get to and that leaves a lot of guys with empty freezers........how long will that go on before those guys start saying "Screw this" and finding better ways to spend their vacation time and the $68 license fee?? |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I think they already are saying "screw this."
We are losing non-residents this year like crazy. They are not willing to pony up the $$$for three reasons: 1) CWD and the export rules. 2) No DMP for NR 3) A much smaller deer herd - and tougher hunting. I have already seen resident hunters doing the same. I heard a couple of guys buying licenses this year complaining that they are paying $10 to "play the lottery" for a losy 30% shot at a DMP. They didn't draw...and were pretty pissed. They said they can find better things to do with their time than chase the last antlered deer around Steuben County. I don't think its quite that bad...but its bad. Steuben County always leads the state in Total Deer Harvest and Buck Harvest. We won't do it this year, for either statistic. They have absolutely hammered down the herd here. Do not expect it to get better quickly, either (although it will get better if they keep the DMP down). Whitetails are remarkably prolific creatures, but as Atlasman points out there are still plenty of tags. The DECALS 3/2 system and the fact you can fill all your empty tags in MZ means a few hunters can continue to pound hell out of a very specific locality. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Just wanted to say the CWD is in Madison and Oienda county`s only the transport rules apply for these 2 counties only. The 58 acres I hunt I`ve seen a total of 4 deer/ 3 does and a buck. I shot the buck after only seeing him for a month. If he got all 3 does pregnant it`ll be a good 3-4 yrs from now before the babies are shot worthy, well if they happen to be bucks(we don`t shoot does on our land). I also think not shooting the does is one of our personal problems. As a doe gets older she is more apt to have does not bucks. I`ve got a wife who got into hunting 4 yrs ago and has yet had a chance to shoot a buck. I`m worried that if the deer numbers don`t get better she`ll stop and It`ll make it real had to get my 2 son`s in the sport. I do agree the DEC is ruining hunting but there is also alot of other factors.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Atlasman, I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything but, I know you always say what is on your mind, so here it goes.. If you have so few deer in your area, why are yor killing them? Sure I know you want the meat, and you haveevery right to but the herd can not repopulate with dead deer. If you are killing does you will just have less deer next year. If the DEC can't get in right it's up to the ones pulling the trigger. Hope I wasnt to harsh. www.pbase.com/mlo3135127 & www.wildturkey.smugmug.com
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
I feel for you guys in NY. I am starting to beleive the same thing is happening to our deer populations in Pa. Some say hunt harder and go deeper into the woods, without knowing anything about our hunting skills or tactics. Maybe some are in denial? Maybe some are blessed with good hunting lands. I don't really know the answers, but I can atleast be honest to say that numbers are way down and i'm a little nervous about it. After all we are paying these people to manage our herd not devour it. To me atleast its worth talking about. I hope things work out for you guys in New York.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
Here in 8Y is loaded with deer. The DECALS had a glitch this year and the DEC has fixed it, but it was to late. I don't blame the DEC 100%. But I don't have problems with getting deer. In fact were trying to cut the doe Pop. because the buck/doe ratio is off 15% on our hunting lands in the past 2 years.This year is the first year I'v seen more bucks than does. so it's working.. We don't have the DEC control our hurd.. we control it. That is the privilege of private land. DMP, we have them. We don't abuse them and we don't use them in the summer because of off spring. As far as state land, no idea. I completely agree with Farm Hunter. The DEC is not allll the bad guys here,, think of poachers. Car deer wrecks, winter of 93 and 94 04. wounded deer are not gunna survive normal winters, yotes,, COUGARS haha jk,,Bottem line,don't let the DEC manage your deer. YOU manage.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
CORRECTION - your little part of 8Y is "loaded with deer."
The WMU 8Y is down 45% since 2003, and will probably decrease even more when this years harvest is counted. Count your blessings if you have good deer numbers. It is certainly not the case in most areas in our neck of the woods. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: amayerican Bottem line,don't let the DEC manage your deer. YOU manage. Impossible. Tens of thousands of acres and a couple hundred thousand hunters is a little tougher to self manage then a couple local farms. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
ORIGINAL: thesource CORRECTION - your little part of 8Y is "loaded with deer." The WMU 8Y is down 45% since 2003, and will probably decrease even more when this years harvest is counted. Count your blessings if you have good deer numbers. It is certainly not the case in most areas in our neck of the woods. I think this is a major obstacle in our state. Many guys that have a few hundred acres of private land all to themselves and they see good deer numbers all the time because there isn't enough pressure to scare them off or enough hunters to reduce them dramatically.........they develope illusions that this is how it is everywhere in the state. I'm happy for ya man..........but your case is not indicative of the average hunter in NY. |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
You know, its funny how its the DECs fault you guys dont see deer. Yes, their explanation of bad wintersis BS, no doubt. We shed hunters dont find all these winter killed deer, yet we find many shed antlers. So much for the theory! BUT...you guys complain that theyre managing the herd wrong. Theres some easy answers here. First off,there are those whoblame all the permits given out in the past. Well, guess who filled all those permits? The hunters. Every year they could, they did. Now those same guys b*tch because they cant get permits! Incredible! Also, I know of alot of successful hunters this year again. Theyve shot some huge bucks in the southern tier this year again. But, some areas just dont have the deer they once did. Welcome to 2005. We couldnt continue to support the record deer numbers of the late eighties andnineties, that was simply too many deer. Also, every year, more and more land gets locked up with multiple owners, as well as development. Add to this that this development supports deer while at the same time making them inaccessable to hunt, and you have a management nightmare! The total numbers suggest certain amounts be harvested, but they cant get into certain areas or zones to do so. So, they scour neighboring areas oftoo manydeer, knowing the deer population will adjust. Thats all that the DEC can do in some areas, and yes, it stinks for hunters. Add to that, less, way less agriculture, and you are just seeing populations really fluctuate from one area to another. I can tell you I still see many good bucks come to my studio, and the deer are still out there, even if not in all areas. The numbers are certainly out there, Ive seen more locked bucks the last 7 years than ever, thats an indication that theres competition within a bucksage group. Its just really hit and miss. States with open ground and solid agriculture like Ohio, Iowa, Illinois and the midwest are still enjoying great deer hunting. Some of those areas have survived over-harvest, CWD scares, and many other factors. I just think we had it too easy for too long. Sometimes a guy needs to learn how to manage his own hunting.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
atlisman,, what part of "As far as state land, no idea." dont you understand...one thingi do no,, public land SUCKS for hunting around here.. you got every woodchuck in the woods pushing deer onto MY land!.. how bout' trying to nock on a door and getting permition,, then we would see more,, "I am QDMn' my land and i have lots of deer!" on these posts.. ask yourself what doyou want out of this sport,, you can hunt public land and see nothin,, or a little PR work and hunt land owners prop.
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
This post could turn into a Private land vs Public land post in a hurry - that would be a shame. I know some great underhunted Stateland - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Look - the bottom line is that the deer populations are DOWN statewide - as evidenced by lower deer takes (even with "too many permits") - the last two years. In some places TOO much. DEC has taken some steps to fix the problems - but don't plan on seeing 20 - 30 deer run past your stand on opening day any year soon! Some of you guys are missing the obvious point. Deer HUNTER populations are declining - and faster than you think - thats OUR fault. DEC is forced to try to manage the deer with less hunters - thus MORE tags. Because not everyone can use 3 deer - DEC must manage the deer at a lower population. Hard hunted lands show the first signsof Deer population decreases -our private lands is a good example - I'd say we have about 1/2 the deer population as 5 years ago. Not that this is all bad!30-40+ deer per square mile was more than most NY habitat can sustain without consequences.I can see the difference already after acouple years incresased harvests. FH |
RE: NYSDEC is a joke
All i can say is in 9W we are doing well inour group. While i will agree that numbers are down we still have had a good season. We have taken 2 4 points, 3 doe and 2 yearlings. This is 6 guys hunting HARD like its spoused to be!!!. If it were easy everyone would be doing it. Today i dropped a 130lb doe (field dressed) while leaving the woods at around 3:45pm. Doe had to be 3+years old. I just hunted hard on my way out next to a ravinetaking baby steps and i look and there they were, 1 buck (good size rack no shot) 1 large doe and 2 yearlings. I took the big doe. It is hit or miss anywhere you go, sometimes you need to adjust your hunting habits to reflect. I have a spot herefor youatlisman if you need a spot with deer. Just contact me here...
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RE: NYSDEC is a joke
If you have so few deer in your area, why are yor killing them? Sure I know you want the meat, and you haveevery right to but the herd can not repopulate with dead deer. If you are killing does you will just have less deer next year. Everything has been covered here. The only thing I can add is: WHAT A COMPLETE JOKE!! (i guess that's been covered as well) I spend an enormous amount of time in the woods from mid summer to early spring.early scouting, bow season, gun season, late archery, late scouting, shed hunting, looking for my Titleist, etc...... Seems to me it's been on a serious downward spiral for the last 4-5 years. And it's got to the point where currentely IMO it's a complete fiasco. We can't even manage our buck to doe ratio because we don't see enough of either to know what's out there. I have always practiced QDM and am selective in the bucks I will take (try to). I hate the mentality of being forced to "take what you can get". I'm afraid it's heading that way if it continues at this pace. The old "if it's brown it's down" days will be upon everyone once again. A successful hunt will be seeing a set of tracks in the snow and getting excited about it. It's a shame. The worst part about it like someone else stated is....... how in the world can I get my 3 sons excited about hunting when they sit in a ground blind with me for hours and not see a single deer. At their ages I'd probably choose playstation too. Same concept as gettiing them involved in fishing. I take them out and catch all the rock bass and perch they can catch and they have an absolute ball. I don't take them trolling for salmon or lakers where the action is few and far between. You can introduce them to the woods, take them squirell hunting, teach them about deer sign and why it's there,etc.... But at the end of the day they need to see deer to get their interest peaked. That's what pisses me off the most about the whole situation. |
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