I have not seen any improvement over the size of bucks since the antler restriction came upon us.All the bucks I have seen are the same as they was 20 years ago.Anyone seen any major antler growthoutside ofprivate or posted property? I have always seen 16 to 20 inch spreads on bucks of 8 or more points.That is common for Pa. The way they made it sound we was goanna have farm type deer here.I haven't seen any improvement.The only diffrence I have noticed is the no. of gun shots in the woods.I would think that is because of the restriction and hunters are checking out to make sure it's legal before they fire instead of blasting away at a deer with antlers.That brings me to this,People didn't see bigger bucks before,cause they shot the first one they seen.So,I would say if you do see bigger bucks it's because you wasn't allowed to shoot the small points one and had to waite for a larger caliber deer to come by.But,I myself do not see any size increase in the racks even as I spotted this season. What I think is goanna happen is,The small bucks are goanna be the breeder with the does with all the larger racked deers being takein.This if anything is goanna reduce the size of antlers on the bucks.My theory is shoot the small bucks and get them out of the gene poll.I seen 7 small racked bucks monday that I couldn't shoot.They wasn't yearlings either.The racks was small and irregular to boot.I think they got this backwards and should look into this.You have to agree if there are smaller racked deers left in the woods they are goanna be the main breeders and the rack size is goanna diminish over the years..PERIOD

ive seen many more big bucks then ever b4......we have new bucks also to helpthe # of bucks you get to watch in your area....maybe it the private land , since a few of us hunt there we have rules and stuff set on what we can take....our doe reduction helped a ton!!

pgc will tell you they are behind every tree.how can you get bigger bucks when you kill all the doe off? 18 days on public land and not 1 deer 4c and 4e.5 days on posted land and got lucky to see 6. 5 does 1 buck not a shooter.deer kill is down this year.pgc says that is do to the lack of hunters

http://www.huntingpa.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/497159/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/2

Check that out. They're all from Western Pa.


shump,

I hunted almost exclusively on gameland in 4e and 4c. I had a great year in archery, saw 13 bucks and 9 of them were on gamelands in your area. I go to bloomsburg and i'm graduating this december, so i wont be hunting up here anymore after rifle season. I'll let you in on some of my spots if you'd like.

Zach

That is nothing new for that part of the state.Western Pa. deer have always been big and they haven't got any bigger.They are the same caliber as they always been also.This program is not working up to date.See what happens in couple years though.As Of this hunting season I say we see a decline in rack size over the years.

Battle Buck, i think the biologists all agreed it would take 3-5 years before most of the improvements were noticed. That being said, most of my friends who bowhunt PA game lands have seen more nice bucks this year than ever, so thats a good sign. From what I hear the plan is working well, and remember, the PGC didn't impliment this soley to get bigger bucks, that is a byproduct of having a more balanced, healthy deer herd, which PA has not had in a LONG time.

I certainly agree with battle buck on this one. I for one have not seen any increase in big racked bucks throughout the state in the last two years. I hunt a very large tract of private ground that we manage for big bucks. We routinely take some 140-150 class deer off the property. However, I don't include my personal hunting into this assumption.

Yes, there are some nice bucks taken in western PA every year, but that has always been the case. Remember, Ohio is right next door and this area of the state shares many of the same charactoristics of Ohio. We also occasionally get some nice bucks from other areas of the state as well. But, that has been going on long before AR and HR were in effect.

I like the antler restrictions. But I think we all set ourselves up on this one. We expected to see big bucks all over the place and I have yet to see a drastic increase in the so called "mature" 3 1/2 year old 8 points Dr. Alt said we'd see more of. Many areas of the state don't have the nutrition found in the western part of the state. Thus, many bucks that do see their 3rd year may only be 6 pointers at best. Guess what happens to them in deer season?

The thing I find very intresting is this so called over browsing of the forest. Well, get a logging company in there and thin out the old growth trees. Some of the best hunting anywhere can be found a year or two after a logging company cuts an area. More browse draws the deer in like magnets. The Comish puts up fences to prove their so called point. Its ridiculous to think that an old growth stand will get much better being fenced in. These trees are blocking the sunlight and smothering anything underneath.

My uncle (a timber company owner) had a really good point about the forest state in PA. Look back through history and you'll learn a lot. Back in the late 1800's we had the chestnut, the chestnut slowly died off and gave way to the oak. Now, the oak is slowly dieing off. Northern states are reporting this. Some form of a disease is slowly taking hold and killing off the oaks. And, has anyone ever noticed what the predominant tree species is when we cut an area? Mostly Maple. That is what nature wants.

I have mixed opinions on the herd reduction. I think we needed to get the population down, but not this drastically. Every mature doe we kill in gun season, we are most likely killing 3 deer. With the sudden increase in license sales and deer harvest, its no wonder the population in many areas has been decemated. Not to mention that some of those fawns are bucks.

Another big factor in this state is sheer hunter numbers. We have over 800,000 guys hitting the woods during season. If even half of those guys take both a buck and a doe, well, another big hit to the herd.

I personally don't ever see this state being even close to what Dr. Alt led us all to believe. I am fortunate in being able to hunt our private ground. The comish seems to be forcing deer to live in private ground.

I am also seeing bigger and nicer deer. Took one to the taxidermist the last 2 years!

The problem with missinformed people....You claim to "shoot all the small bucks" so they dont breed. THese small bucks are 1-1/2 year old deer with their 1st set of antlers. Given another year or two these deer have the potential to be huge bucks...BUT THEY NEED TIME. A deer with their first set of horns isnt going to be a 145 class buck! Age is almost everything. It has been proven time and time again that the genetics in PA are excellent!! Just give em time.

These older deer are also alot smarter...they aint like the dumb youngins.
They aint gonna be running around like dumb teenagers. Find thick cover and you will find the bigger bucks.

muzzyman88- i think your post was well thought out and well writen. and i agree w/ most of what you say about the HR and the trees. now for AR well im sure their are cases of what you said about a 3 yr old being a little 6 but i dont know.. like for me i shot a 2 1/2yr old monday. it was a 7pt w/ a 17" inside spread. pretty nice buck to some. but he wasent tall. you give him one more year or even 2 and wow he would be a monster. but thats never going to happen on sgl. now i know i pulled the trigger butw/ all the time i put in the woods this year and w/ trail cameras and everything, this was the biggest buck seen. now im sure there is a bigger one out there but w/ hunting these days you might not see another deer all season. in the past i saw what i shot this yearand even bigger but the difference was i saw more, just because there were more deer. none the less i am proud of my buck but i also shot one that looks just like it 14yrs ago

What a lot of people are failing to understand is that the herd was going get cut one way or the other. That's what the PGC wanted. With the herds being reduced as much as they are, and NOT protecting some bucks.....man would you guys be whining becuase there would be even far fewer bucks. At least with the AR now, despite having overall lower deer numbers you still have some nicer bucks left. If AR's were gone and at these low deer numbers you'd have next to NO decent bucks. In places where the herd hasn't been cut so bad, the AR's are working wonders. Don't blame the #'s of big bucks on AR not working, blame it on HR working.