PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
07-01-2005 | 05:44 AM
#31
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,157
Likes: 0
From: Lehigh County PA USA
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
ddear,
Thanks for the info. Lots of food for thought. I was never a devout Alt supporter but I was willing to give him a chance.
Thanks for the info. Lots of food for thought. I was never a devout Alt supporter but I was willing to give him a chance.
07-01-2005 | 12:31 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
As usual dd you have skirted direct questions to statements you claim were believed by ALL or NONE.
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
07-01-2005 | 02:32 PM
#35
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
ORIGINAL: AJ52
As usual dd you have skirted direct questions to statements you claim were believed by ALL or NONE.
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
As usual dd you have skirted direct questions to statements you claim were believed by ALL or NONE.
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
He is what DR. Rosenberry had to say about late breeding and whether we had enough buck to breed the adult doe.
Overall, the rut ran from September into February, but 9 out of 10 does were bred from mid-October to mid-December. The peak of the rut occurred in mid-November (Figure 1). This peak in breeding resulted in a peak fawning time of late May to early June. The gestation period (time from breeding to birth) of deer is about 200 days.
Compared to adult does, female fawns were bred later. Peak breeding by fawns occurred in late November and early December, and nearly half of all fawn breeding occurred from December to February. Fawn breeding probably explains some breeding activity observed by hunters during the firearms season after Thanksgiving.
Overall, one of every four female fawns was pregnant, while nine out 10 adult does were pregnant. Fawns generally had single fawns and adult does usually had twins. Triplets were rare (Table 1).
From these results, we can conclude that Pennsylvania's deer population contains enough bucks to breed does in a relatively short time period. Most adult does are being bred around November, with fawn breeding extending through December into February.
Late breeding by fawns may not be indicative of lack of bucks. Rather, it may be related to maturation of fawns, whereby they don't become sexually mature until late November. Sexual maturity in fawns is related to body size, which is affected by quality and quantity of food as well as birth date. Consequently, fawns in the most productive areas of Pennsylvania may reach sexual maturity and become pregnant (Table 1). Fawns in other areas with poorer nutrition may not reach sexual maturity until the following year, when they are a year and a half old.
Compared to adult does, female fawns were bred later. Peak breeding by fawns occurred in late November and early December, and nearly half of all fawn breeding occurred from December to February. Fawn breeding probably explains some breeding activity observed by hunters during the firearms season after Thanksgiving.
Overall, one of every four female fawns was pregnant, while nine out 10 adult does were pregnant. Fawns generally had single fawns and adult does usually had twins. Triplets were rare (Table 1).
From these results, we can conclude that Pennsylvania's deer population contains enough bucks to breed does in a relatively short time period. Most adult does are being bred around November, with fawn breeding extending through December into February.
Late breeding by fawns may not be indicative of lack of bucks. Rather, it may be related to maturation of fawns, whereby they don't become sexually mature until late November. Sexual maturity in fawns is related to body size, which is affected by quality and quantity of food as well as birth date. Consequently, fawns in the most productive areas of Pennsylvania may reach sexual maturity and become pregnant (Table 1). Fawns in other areas with poorer nutrition may not reach sexual maturity until the following year, when they are a year and a half old.
07-01-2005 | 02:57 PM
#36
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: Pa.
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
ORIGINAL: ddear
you should really do a little more reading about PA so you would know what you are talking about before you make unfounded accussations like that .
He is what DR. Rosenberry had to say about late breeding and whether we had enough buck to breed the adult doe.
If you have anymore questions about the reasons for late breeding and late born fawns in PA , I will be happy to enlighten you.
ORIGINAL: AJ52
As usual dd you have skirted direct questions to statements you claim were believed by ALL or NONE.
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
As usual dd you have skirted direct questions to statements you claim were believed by ALL or NONE.
All anybody has to do is go back in this thread and read your posts.
Living and Hunting in PA has little or no bearing on the statements YOU have made about QDM,late breeding,benifits of AR to B/D ratio,HR and future buck harvest, etc...etc...
Your making statements that could have relevance to any state not just PA. You have nothing to back it up, except your own spin on numbers and your "Opinon".
He is what DR. Rosenberry had to say about late breeding and whether we had enough buck to breed the adult doe.
Overall, the rut ran from September into February, but 9 out of 10 does were bred from mid-October to mid-December. The peak of the rut occurred in mid-November (Figure 1). This peak in breeding resulted in a peak fawning time of late May to early June. The gestation period (time from breeding to birth) of deer is about 200 days.
Compared to adult does, female fawns were bred later. Peak breeding by fawns occurred in late November and early December, and nearly half of all fawn breeding occurred from December to February. Fawn breeding probably explains some breeding activity observed by hunters during the firearms season after Thanksgiving.
Overall, one of every four female fawns was pregnant, while nine out 10 adult does were pregnant. Fawns generally had single fawns and adult does usually had twins. Triplets were rare (Table 1).
From these results, we can conclude that Pennsylvania's deer population contains enough bucks to breed does in a relatively short time period. Most adult does are being bred around November, with fawn breeding extending through December into February.
Late breeding by fawns may not be indicative of lack of bucks. Rather, it may be related to maturation of fawns, whereby they don't become sexually mature until late November. Sexual maturity in fawns is related to body size, which is affected by quality and quantity of food as well as birth date. Consequently, fawns in the most productive areas of Pennsylvania may reach sexual maturity and become pregnant (Table 1). Fawns in other areas with poorer nutrition may not reach sexual maturity until the following year, when they are a year and a half old.
Compared to adult does, female fawns were bred later. Peak breeding by fawns occurred in late November and early December, and nearly half of all fawn breeding occurred from December to February. Fawn breeding probably explains some breeding activity observed by hunters during the firearms season after Thanksgiving.
Overall, one of every four female fawns was pregnant, while nine out 10 adult does were pregnant. Fawns generally had single fawns and adult does usually had twins. Triplets were rare (Table 1).
From these results, we can conclude that Pennsylvania's deer population contains enough bucks to breed does in a relatively short time period. Most adult does are being bred around November, with fawn breeding extending through December into February.
Late breeding by fawns may not be indicative of lack of bucks. Rather, it may be related to maturation of fawns, whereby they don't become sexually mature until late November. Sexual maturity in fawns is related to body size, which is affected by quality and quantity of food as well as birth date. Consequently, fawns in the most productive areas of Pennsylvania may reach sexual maturity and become pregnant (Table 1). Fawns in other areas with poorer nutrition may not reach sexual maturity until the following year, when they are a year and a half old.
If you guys would do your homework you would see ddear has been right all along.
I drive a DODGE so.
07-01-2005 | 03:42 PM
#37
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
Now lets see if I was blowing smoke about the effects of AR's. the following is the harvest data for 2.5+ buck both before and after AR's were implemented. Note that the 2004 harvest of 2.5+ buck was also 62K.
Statewide data from 1981 through 2003 showing the buck harvest, percentage of 2 1⁄2 and older bucks harvested and the number of 2 1⁄2 year old and older bucks harvested for each year.
Year-------buck harvest------% 2.5 plus years old---# of 2.5 year old buck harvested
1981--------N/A------------------18.4------------------------N/A
1982--------122,264-------------20.3------------------------24,819
1983--------120,291-------------21.7------------------------26,103
1984--------135,388-------------22.8------------------------30,868
1985--------136,104-------------20.0------------------------27,221
1986--------150,363-------------21.2------------------------31,877
1987--------157,559-------------18.9------------------------29,779
1988--------163,113-------------19.0------------------------30,991
1989--------169,814-------------19.4------------------------32,944
1990--------170,099-------------17.9------------------------30,448
1991--------149,633-------------18.0------------------------26,934
1992--------163,195-------------18.5------------------------30,191
1993--------165,250-------------20.8------------------------34,372
1994--------157,030-------------17.5------------------------27,480
1995--------182,235-------------17.4------------------------31,709
1996--------153,432-------------16.2------------------------24,856
1997--------176,677-------------18.6------------------------32,862
1998--------181,449-------------19.4------------------------35,201
1999--------194,371-------------20.0------------------------38,874
2000--------203,221-------------18.3------------------------37,189
2001--------203,247-------------21.6------------------------43,901
2002--------165,416-------------31.8------------------------52,602
2003--------142,270-------------43.6------------------------62,030
Now please note that the 2.5+ buck harvest increased more from 2000 to 2002 before AR's were implemented, then it increased from 2002 to 2004 after AR's were implemented.
The increase prior to AR's was due to low BB harvests, more BB being recruited and fewer adult buck being harvested as antlerless deer. the exact oppposite has occurred since AR's were implemenetd so the 2.5+ buck harvesat will continue to decline and we will sooon be harvesting fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002.
Now as far as the B/D ratio is concerned, I can provide a link that shows our B/D ratio in 1983 was 1:1.99 ,if you are still interested in seeing that I can support my postion with facts and that it is not based on my personal opinion.
Statewide data from 1981 through 2003 showing the buck harvest, percentage of 2 1⁄2 and older bucks harvested and the number of 2 1⁄2 year old and older bucks harvested for each year.
Year-------buck harvest------% 2.5 plus years old---# of 2.5 year old buck harvested
1981--------N/A------------------18.4------------------------N/A
1982--------122,264-------------20.3------------------------24,819
1983--------120,291-------------21.7------------------------26,103
1984--------135,388-------------22.8------------------------30,868
1985--------136,104-------------20.0------------------------27,221
1986--------150,363-------------21.2------------------------31,877
1987--------157,559-------------18.9------------------------29,779
1988--------163,113-------------19.0------------------------30,991
1989--------169,814-------------19.4------------------------32,944
1990--------170,099-------------17.9------------------------30,448
1991--------149,633-------------18.0------------------------26,934
1992--------163,195-------------18.5------------------------30,191
1993--------165,250-------------20.8------------------------34,372
1994--------157,030-------------17.5------------------------27,480
1995--------182,235-------------17.4------------------------31,709
1996--------153,432-------------16.2------------------------24,856
1997--------176,677-------------18.6------------------------32,862
1998--------181,449-------------19.4------------------------35,201
1999--------194,371-------------20.0------------------------38,874
2000--------203,221-------------18.3------------------------37,189
2001--------203,247-------------21.6------------------------43,901
2002--------165,416-------------31.8------------------------52,602
2003--------142,270-------------43.6------------------------62,030
Now please note that the 2.5+ buck harvest increased more from 2000 to 2002 before AR's were implemented, then it increased from 2002 to 2004 after AR's were implemented.
The increase prior to AR's was due to low BB harvests, more BB being recruited and fewer adult buck being harvested as antlerless deer. the exact oppposite has occurred since AR's were implemenetd so the 2.5+ buck harvesat will continue to decline and we will sooon be harvesting fewer 2.5+ buck than we did in 2002.
Now as far as the B/D ratio is concerned, I can provide a link that shows our B/D ratio in 1983 was 1:1.99 ,if you are still interested in seeing that I can support my postion with facts and that it is not based on my personal opinion.
07-01-2005 | 04:30 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
This entire thread is getting off topic as is the usual.
dd,
who the heck is dr rosenberry? is he what you refer to as ALL QDM managers?? where are the rest as I requested you enlighten me on?? You failed to produce as usuaI and only responded with your usual "statewide data".
dr rosenberry's comments are far from what you stated in your post. you go back and read your posts and how you worded it(spun it) to fit your agenda. what he has stated is in no way unique to PA. I don't need to understand anything about PA. with the exception of your moldy oldy statewide data we have seen 100 times over there is nothing stated that is unique.
I really don't wish to enlighten you on anything further. I see most if not all of your posts negative propoganda to fit whatever purpose you have. Maybe to break 16k on HNI ??
dd,
who the heck is dr rosenberry? is he what you refer to as ALL QDM managers?? where are the rest as I requested you enlighten me on?? You failed to produce as usuaI and only responded with your usual "statewide data".
dr rosenberry's comments are far from what you stated in your post. you go back and read your posts and how you worded it(spun it) to fit your agenda. what he has stated is in no way unique to PA. I don't need to understand anything about PA. with the exception of your moldy oldy statewide data we have seen 100 times over there is nothing stated that is unique.
I really don't wish to enlighten you on anything further. I see most if not all of your posts negative propoganda to fit whatever purpose you have. Maybe to break 16k on HNI ??
07-01-2005 | 04:45 PM
#40
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
RE: PGC and Gary Alt' Newspaper comments?
Dr. Rosenberry happens to be a well respected wildlife biologist who is now the head of the PA deer management program. As i said before , you need to do a little more reading about what is happening in PA so you can add to the discussion and moderate this forum fairly.
DR. R. comments support exactly what I said. Late breeding in PA is due to fawns being bred in DEc. Jan. and feb. and not due to a skewed B/D ratio as Alt claimed. Dr. R said we habd enough buck to breed the doe so we didn't need AR. Our breeding rate for adult doe was 90% before AR's so the max. inmprovement AR's could provide was around 5%.
DR. R. comments support exactly what I said. Late breeding in PA is due to fawns being bred in DEc. Jan. and feb. and not due to a skewed B/D ratio as Alt claimed. Dr. R said we habd enough buck to breed the doe so we didn't need AR. Our breeding rate for adult doe was 90% before AR's so the max. inmprovement AR's could provide was around 5%.