bigcountry

Goodness, thought we lived in the good ole USA where a guy could be a slob hunter if he wants too.

Big Country

Indianahick, not sure where you came up with the name Bill? Nevertheless, how is a high fence operator exercising of his private property rights forcing anything on you, or anybody else? You are not obligated to partake in any activity that may be available there.

I missed the comment about someone gut shooting a deer the night before the opener. You would have a tough time turning him in, because if I witnessed that, I would spend as much of my time, and my money, as it would take to insure that person never hunted again, and lost everything that the law would possibly allow.

I understand that in your opinion, a 117 acre pen is NOT hunting. My reply to that is........it does NOT have to be hunting in your opinion. It does NOT have to be hunting in anyones opinion. I realize that the state of Indiana frowns on this.....Indiana is WRONG. Private property rights obviously means nothing in your state. It is not like a high fence operation is a meth lab, making illegal drugs. A high fence operation raises privately owned animals to be killed. Just like a rancher raises beef cattle.

Also, I never said I love my deer being chased by dogs. I have never hunted deer with dogs. I have no desire to ever hunt deer with dogs. I merely pointed out that in different areas of the country there are different ways to hunt deer. People out west think bowhunting from a treestand is like a vulture waiting for something to die. People from the northeast cannot imagine what fun it would be to hunt deer with dogs. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

You and I do not have to want to hunt inside a high fence, but I cannot bring myself to tell another man what to do, or not do, on his own land when it brings me, you, or anybody else, any harm.

Big Country

Out of curiousity, who would be the bigger slob.............

1. A guy that kills an animal at a legitimate, legally run high fence operation.

2. A guy that goes to camp for the opener of gun season, goes hunting while hungover, or worse yet, drunk, and does not obey game laws.

Which one of these two would be the "slob hunter"?

Indianahick

Personally I would say both are equal and the same. And according to rumer there was someone that did both on camara. Oh yeah he also had no license. Just out of interest what is your opinion of this person?

A lot of hunting falls under personal ethics. Mine says that hunting small penned lots is not right and should not be condowned. Sorry about any spelling errors.

You have my feelings and I am done.

kevin1

I'm not gonna bother getting into a pissin' contest with you BC , laws are made based on the wants or needs of the citizens of the state , and the vast majority (85%) of Hoosiers consider those places repulsive abbatoirs and want them gone . If the deer pimps had tried to set up openly instead of sneaking in under the radar they would have been told to go somewhere else before they invested their money . There are plenty of people in any state who are against something , and if enough of them get together and make themselves heard then what they want happens . It's called democracy .

Big Country

[quote][Personally I would say both are equal and the same/quote]

You actually feel that a person that chooses to kill an animal inside a LEGALLY run high fence is the same as a game law violator who hunts while hung over, or drunk? I don`t think that is what you really mean.

From what I understand, there were numerous violations that occured at Rus Bellars place. As I stated before, Bellar operated outside of Indiana state law, in fact some of the things done there were violations of state laws that allow high fence hunting, so justice was done regarding Bellars operation.

You SHOULD NOT need a license to hunt privately owned animals inside of a privately owned high fence. The idea ofneeding a license to do so is absurd.

If you mean what is my opinion of a person who would hunt drunk.......I loath people who get intoxicated, whether they are hunting, mowing the lawn, or watching a football game. Alcoholism is a weakness. There are not many things more pathetic than having to listen to someone who is drunk.

I agree with you 100%.

OK, you have already stated that a 117 acre pen is NOT big enough for high fence hunting. What exact number would you consider OK? What if your size limit did not fit with someone elses minimum size limit?

What minimum size limit would you think is fair for a slaughterhouse that butchers hogs? They are privately owned animals, being killed on privately owned land too.

Indianahick, you and I do NOT agree on the topic of high fence hunting. We are BOTH sportsmen, and I have no doubt we both share the same passion for hunting, and we are both ethical, law abiding hunters. I simply do not believe that the state of Indiana is correct when they deny a property owner their right to have a business that does NOT hurt anyone if it is run properly. Put regulations on it like any other business, but to deny that right is a socialist concept.

Thank you for the civil debate, and I wish you good luck this coming season.

Indianahick

The hunter that was supposidly under the influance at bellors posing for his picture was Jimmy Houstan. I say supposidly because my knowledge is totally hearsay.

License in Indiana are needed to transport and have processed as well as hunt. You can kill a deer on a farm without a license under the depradation permit, but you can not remove it from the property.

What would I consider a large enough area for high fence hunting. One that is large enough for free roaming with out being cut up into smaller fenced areas. Let see 15-20,000 acres for starters. After that feeders, salt blocks, baiting would fall under state law. Since it is illeagle to do all 3 here then my ethics which comes from where I live and began hunting does not care for it. If you use feeders then I would like to see them used only between 10pm and 3am. Total darkness, no hunting with in say 500 yards (due to high power rifles; Yeah I know that there are those out there that would take that shot also).

As I recall someone out there made a remark about our governer and the dnr. I thought that under his name he said that he was from new york. If I was from a state that elected Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer to the congress I would not jibe anyone elses government.

And yes I would equate a person that hunts places like bellars to criminal slob hunters. Bothare short of ethics. Now there is one and only one way I would condone shooting an animal out of season on purpose. That is if he was out of a job due to plant closure and needed it to feed his family.

hillbillyhunter1

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Bill Yox

Indianahick, yep, that was me in NY. No, I didnt vote those two liberal loosers in, either. I believe they just formed here, you know, like mold. As for your DNR, its on record. Youll see. Tell me you dont know all about the governor and his foolish proposals on ALL hunting along with the enclosure issues? How about the Lacy Act ruling? See, like I said earlier, you guys really ought to know what youre talking about first. Oh by the way, how many 15-20,000 acre free range hunting are you doing in Indiana? Yet thats the acreage needed for enclosures? Seems to me if you climb 12 foot up a tree with a bow, you have a thirty yard shot, no matter how big the country around you is. Indianahick, while we will never agree even on principle, which is my point, and thats sad...at least you have been a gentleman throughout this exchange. Id shake your hand if we were face to face. I hope your deer season is always successful for you.

bigbuckOO

Bill, i would agree Bellar isnt the way it works in other areas. But we are speaking about Indiana. Like i said before, some states may want them and thats fine, but in this state we dont. Bellars isnt a model for other parts of the country i would agree, but unfortunately here in Indiana it was. It gave the hunting community a black eye for many people to see. It wasnt just the fact that he operated a high hunting operation, it was that he knowlingly violated almost 30 game laws on top of it. Simply put the man was a CROOK. The fact that preserve owners in this state still have his back is disgusting. Indianahick, preseve owners wont answer questions becuase they dont have to. It's just like Bellar, they feel the law doesnt apply because it's their property. The only way to find out the facts is to pull more stings. Send an undercover officer in there as a customer. Bruce's place apparently had a group of dead deer laying around missing only the heads and capes. According to him they were killed by dogs. Possible i suppose, but again, no way of knowing for sure.

Bill, im not a big fan of our gov. But i do believe a deer farmer in this state actually helped contribute to his campaign. He also has tried to find a compromise for these preserves. Being a deer farmer yourself, i would have figured you would have liked that. As for the DNR, i dont like a lot of things they do either, but hey, my fishing and my hunting is pretty good and thats all that matters. This state is producing record book bucks at an incredible rate right now.