Inferior Rounds
 

The .410, 28, and 10 gauge are useless. Especially the .410 and 10 gauge. Why even bother with these gauges? The 20 gauge is light and far superior than those other two small gauges. Also, why would you bother with a 16 gauge? Most of the 16 gauges are built onto a 12 gauge frame to begin with. I would love to see these gauges become extinct. I can't wait till the WSSM and WSM take over the other calibers which are inferior. I have a whole list of inferior rifle rounds that should not be made anymore The WSSMs and WSMs (the 7mm was ruined though) are certainly here to stay. It's too bad they screwed the 7mm WSM. Since, the 7mm WSM has a shorter neck they can't efficiently shoot 175 grain bullets. The shorter neck is what reduced the popularity of the 7mm WSM which is too bad. It was the flattest shooter out of the WSM's. Wake up people, there's a revolution going around.

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How far away can you shoot a goose with a 20 gauge? Even with high brass it cant be close to a 10 gauge.

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I would have to disagree, the .410 makes a great squirrel or rabbit gun, the 10 gauge is super for geese and turkey. The 20 and 12 gauge have their place also. Now for rifle caliburs you sound like a fan of the mags and thats ok to each his own but I personally dont think that there is anything wrong with the 7mm, I dont use it my self I prefer the good ole 30.06 it does everything I need with out having to go to a magnum. I have an Idea why dont we just make all caliburs and gauges obsolete and then we can shoot .50BMG'S I apolagize for being sarcastic but who made you the judge? You are more than welcome to express your opinions but there are a lot of people here that shoot all kinds of caliburs and gauges. So if you think a certain calibur or gauge should be obsolete then dont buy them but dont think everyone is going to agree with your opinions and thats what they are your opinions. Jimmy

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such wisdom

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Well I'm gonna figure you probably want the .243/25-06 outta here to as being to small, eh? Honestly, if you like those mag's that fine, but still many people really don't care for the kick of those mag's, and honestly, there ain't alotta people who can actually use the distance those guns can shoot....The 270 or 30-06 goes way beyond most shooters abilities, why need more?

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Yeah. The kick is only about 2 more in recoil energy and maybe even less. The 25 WSSM uses 14% less in powder than the 25-06 and does just as good. Big things come in small packages. That is true about the people not being able to shoot that far but another great reason to have them is because of the reduced weight of the gun. It's almost like buying a titanium rifle.

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sounds like to me you've never been shot[:-]

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I don't know exactly but I know you could shoot turkeys 40 yards away with them. The new loads for waterfowl give you the choice to go down 3 sizes so 20 guage is plenty.

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Since when is the 10 guage worthless? Like 1dahunter said, it's great for turkey and it's powerful deer medicine.

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If you don't like a particular guage or caliber, you are free not to buy them!
Don't expect anyone to worship your choice though!

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BuckMaster, your reasons aren't bad but your logic is flawed. Your making the assumption ballistics is the only consideration when choosing a caliber. If that were the case, my .223, 25-06, and 30-30 would all be a thing of the past. There is a .223WSSM and a 25WSSM to replace my first to. The 30-30, well it was passed by other .30 calibers ballistically 100 years ago. So why own them? Because I don't need the power of a 300whizbangmagnum. I use the 30-30 because I like a traditional lever action, its short and easy to carry, and I don't have a scope on it because the shots I plan to make when I'm using it are normally very short. I use a .223 for coyotes and varmints, mainly under 300 yards. Since it is also a current military cartridge, ammo is incredibly cheap and easy to come by. For longer range deer or coyotes, I've got the 25-06. I don't plan to shoot anything bigger, so why use anything bigger. Sure, I could use a 300WSM, but I probably couldn't shoot it as good. As far as the 25WSSM, larger bullets take away some powder capacity. Also, the factory loads for the WSSM's are loaded pretty hot while most factory 25-06 ammo isn't. So ballistics look the same, but a reloader can do more with the 25-06. Also, case life for the WSSM's is much shorter.

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Hey Justin with your 100 years of wisdom you should know A rifle has not been built that will out perform the great 264 winchester magnum.[:'(]But your shot gun knowledge would fit in the case of a 22 short. Other than that you seem pretty open minded.Nosler prints a couple of books you might look into.

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Yeah there is, the 257 weatherby magnum beats it. They could easily beat the 264 winchester magnum by making one in 264 WSM. Why are you even comparing a 264 to 257 caliber?

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No, that's not all, the shorter action makes them a nice light rifle.

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An hour ago the 7 mag was your sweetheart. You don't have much loyalty.Or are you reaching for something here.

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The 257 and the 7mm are two very different rounds. The 7 WSM can take all the game in America and is the flattest of all calibers. Take a look at the ballistic coefficient on those rounds. There's one that had 620 which is pretty high.

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Flattest of all calibers ???????? Ever hear of The 30-378 Weatherby MAG From way back in 1958. Just how far do you want to Shoot????????

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It's overkill on deer. It has a long action and is a belted magnum. The recoil would be on the extreme side. Apparently that's why it's unpopular.

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Hey Jim, with your 100 years of wisdom you should know that these WSM's and WSSM's kick @$$. :D

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which one is inferior?

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.410 bore, 2.5" (1/2 at 1200) 5.75 7.1
.410 bore, 3" (11/16 at 1135) 5.75 10.5
20 gauge, 2.75" (7/8 at 1200) 6.5 16.1
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 6.5 21.0

The 20 gauge is almost just as light as the .410 and the recoil is about the same. You can also hunt deer and geese with the 20 gauge.

12 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1180) 7.5 17.3
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1200) 7.5 23.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/4 at 1330) 7.5 32.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 at 1280) 7.5 52.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 7/8 at 1210) 8.75 54.0
10 gauge, 3.5" (2 1/4 at 1210) 10.5 62.9

Go to Chuckhawks.com if you want to see the chart.

That extra load of that 10 is really going to make a difference. Basically if you hit with the 10 gauge you would have hit with the 12 guage. It kicks like a b!tch even though it weighs a lot. You would probably flinch a lot and miss even with that big load.

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10 gauge with buckshot for deer? You're kidding me. :D Even the 20 gauge with core-lokt ultra bonded slugs outbeats the 10 gauge with buckshot. Which deer are you hunting? Coues deer? In a lot of states it's illegal to hunt whitetails with buckshot. For the most part, they get wounded. If you're talking about 10 gauge 3 1/2 slugs, the 20 gauge still beats it.:D

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There are reasons for these guns such as the 25-06 it is a very flat shooting round and will stop a deer on a dime also this gun won't send you to the doctor everytime you shoot it to have surgery on your shoulder

The thing is not everybody has the money to shoot $20+ a box for 20 rounds of wsm or wssm ammunition

Also the 410 is a good rabbit gun it will drop rabbits just as good as your godly 20 guage and not put 100 pellets through it ruining all the meat
that point made i hope you can see why people want to have other guns in their arsonal and not just the brand new overpriced wsm & wssm cartridges

Plus i would rather own as many guns as i could and not just a few wsm and wssm cartridges

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What a contoversial thread. I was staying out, but then saw the 10ga and buckshot quote. I've shot quite a few deer and hogs with buckshot and never lost a one. Its not the fault of the gun or buckshot. Only those that don't know how to use it. Same as it is with anything else.

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Buckmaster7 do you actually have any first hand knowledge about this thread you started or do you just like spewing nonsence?

Seriously, you have not made one point that has actually had any merit or made an ounce of sense.

Most every single cartridge made today has a very good reason for being here.

Since this is your thread please enlighten us as to which ones actually "need" to be here. I am actually very interested in hearing what you think should stay and what should go.

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In other states and places like military installations buck shot is the only thing you can legally use.

It's not the buck shot that wounds the animals. It's the people behind the trigger that do not respect the limitations of buck shot. That sounds very similar to what the anti's say about guns in general. You know.... "guns kill people".[:'(]

Yes it can definetly make a differance. Perhaps you should go out and actually pattern a shotgun sometime with different loads and different gagues. Charts like the one you quoted mean very little in the real hunting world.

Everything from the 243 on up is over kill for deer.

It also has a very fat case for its length. This can result in jams in fast cycling of the bolt. It also costs about twice as much to shoot.

That statement you made right there pretty much summs up you real world knowledge on this subject.

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Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

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if the deer, turkeys, squirrels, rabbits and all the other game animals catch wind of this can you imagine what a devastating effect it would have on hunting ,

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First, you sound 12 years old. If you are older than that then thats just truely sad.

Second, the WSM's won't do a single thing that their standard length counterparts can't do except fit in a shorter lighter gun. And for the life of me I can't imagine why most people would want a light weight 300 magnum. Just to see how much more a gun that weighs 2 lbs less will kick? The only application that I can envision the 300 WSM fitting is if I had to hike 8 miles through the back country then take a 400 yard shot at a 600 plus pound animal. For deer they are light weight teeth rattling market hyped overkill.

I have two buddies that are like you. They run out and buy whatever new whizzbangzoomsuperduperultramag caliber the gun makers tout as the next greatest revolution in the shooting world. Last count they have about 5 revolutionary calibers apiece collecting dust in their gun cabinets. I spotted one of those guys about mid-season and he had two black eyes and a half moon cut on the bridge of his nose. I knew instantly the cause and yelled out to him,"Ain't them light weight short magnums great?" He just shook his head and walked on. I ran into the other one last week and he's already trying to sell his 300 WSM and swears he's going to buy a 243. Reason? The recoil is killing him and he says he's developed a flinch that has severely hurt his ability to shoot the 300 WSM accurately. Yep, marketing hype. Isn't it great?

I killed all my deer last season with a 25-06 and a 7mm-08. Both are mild and pleasent to shoot so I enjoy shooting them a lot at my local gravel pit. Don't need a chiropracter when I get home either. As a consequence of my frequent enjoyable shooting sessions I have become quite proficient with both these guns. I can easily kill deer out to 300 yards which is as far as I could ever need to shoot on our land. And the deer I shot last year all seemed pretty dead to me but I'm sure your WSM's would have killed them even deader.

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I'll just stick to my ol' Elsie 16. It's as light as most 20s, and when you run outa ammo tryin' to limit out, you can't start shootin' up my supply. :D

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Come on, guys, cut him some slack. Most of us knew everything at that age, too.

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looks like you are looking for a fight
ever seen what hapens when you shoot a rat and hit the feed bunk at the same time with a .410 try doing that with a 12 g

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Yeah, but the differance is that I really did know everything when I was a teenager.

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Dang! (dob: 2/23/88)
17years old, and to have such hunting experience & wisdom. :D
Reminds me of the "good old days" :eek:
Oh well, maybe I'm senile, but I'll stick with the 270Win., 7x57, 280Rem., 30-30 or 45/70, etc.

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Im waiting for the list of calibers he thinks is obsolete? Should make for some comic relief...


We dont need that danged ol 270 and that 308 is a hunka crap..and why would anyone ever buy a 30/30?? :D:D J/K here so dont tar and feather me...I was just tryin to anticipate that list!:D

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I knew everything at that age too. But Darn Now I forgot it all.;) I think all is obsolete except the 7MM WSM.:D I think he is just out to stir us old guys up. Young whipersnapper. Well I give him one thing, he is intrested in guns. Probably girls too. Me too, just can't remember why.:(

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I’ll have to put the deer I killed back together and tell him he was killed with an inferior round.

I think we all go through this phase. There was a time when I could recite the ballastic tables off the top of my head and was impressed with speed and fluff. All that proved was I knew how to read as I sure as heck didn't know how to shoot and hunt. As we mature, we realize that what we use is less important than how we use it.

I guess that could apply to girls also.:)

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Actually in accuracy shooting there is an advantage to the inherently short fat cases. Whether its needed for the average hunter that has no business shooting past 200 or 300 yards is questionable. And its a sure way to sell more guns by coming out with something new again. But those WSM rounds, especially the 7wsm are sure awful accurate rounds. And more easily accurate. If that makes any sense.

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There is nothing wrong with the WSM cartridges. I think they are a good idea. That however does not make other cartridges less effective.

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