Whitehorn

I always get a kick out of these pro-mag conversatoins. My buddy and I were hunting elk/deer and we (& our .270s) ran into another hunter who had a mag of some sort and he scolded us for our yote-guns, told us he wouldn't even use a 270 to dig rock out of his garden.. I told him I wouldn't either and have a nice spade for that. Anyhow, never saw him again but my buddy filled his elk tag that year with one shot.

The 30/06 is the jack of all trades, but the master should be the one squeesing the trigger.

Nomercy

It's the same reason guys buy a F-350 Super Duty Diesel Super Cab to drive 20min across town to work. (which really pisses me off because it drives the price on them sky high and us cattle ranchers-who need a super duty truck-can't afford them).

ELKampMaster

I was just looking at a couple of those! Add the power chip and the oversize induction system to the Powerstroke Diesel and things get interesting! I don't drive even 3 miles to work and drag a heavily loaded trailer but once a year. I can't speak for the other "bad guys" but I'm thinking I want one simply because I REALLY LIKE IT A LOTT, kinda the same way I choose firearms. I wouldn't go with the duelly package though --- even in 4WD, not too good in deep snow, IMHO.
=================

BTW, how is your uncle's buffalo ranching going?

Alsatian

The salesman is trying to make a sale: that is his job. Of course, he should be informed about his product, but this isn't required in many cases to sell. Imagine a woman's response to this who is buying her husband a rifle on the basis of knowing that he has been lusting after a .338 Win Mag for Elk hunting but isn't herself knowledgeable about guns. She would have gone home with the .338 Ultra Mag I suppose.

In all probability you know substantially more than the salesman about rifles and cartridges. To suggest the .338 Win Mag is a minimum for Elk is to be very ill informed about that cartridge. And it isn't like this is an obscure cartridge. It is a very popular cartridge, and a lot of rounds of ammo for it are sold annually. He just flunked Cartridges 101 I guess.

Or, as Charlie Brown suggests, the world is evolving. Smokeless powder is becoming less potent. Lead is becoming less dense. 0.338" diameter is shrinking.

ELKampMaster

The salesman certainly is setting the "bar" a bit high perhaps.

IMHO, calling a given cartridge a "minimum" for some use is NOT speaking negatively of that cartridge at all. It simply says that THAT cartridge if good for that use and below that one considers it unsatisfactory.... someone saying a 338WinMag is the minimum for elk is NOT slamming the 338WinMag.

Real life example:

I've seen some folks get upset that we have a rule in our elk camp that "30-06 power/penetration" is our elk camp minimum. We are NOT saying, in this example, that 30-06 is a poor cartridge for that use --- not at all, I think the 30-06 is a grand old cartridge and the "king" of the cross over rifles --- we ARE saying that going below a 30-06 is not welcome.

It is the ones just below them that need to be jumping up and down. Sorry, I just can't give every cartridge in the Reloading book an A+, I'm just not that PC, kinda like some schools that don't give out letter grades because little Johnny might get his feelings hurt.

pharaoh2

I used to be a firearms salesman. I would try to talk more guys out of cartridges they didn't need more often than not. If I had a guy come in, who obviously never took his rifle to the range, and wanted to go shoot some deer, but wanted a 7mm Mag because that's what his buddy/dad/cousin/brother/uncle/old-man-down-the-road/grey-aliens/voices-in-his-head said it was the only gun worth getting. I would find out where he/she would be hunting. Terrian, range, etc. and than, if applicable try to sell them a .270 or 7mm-08. I would explain that out to 300 yards, (About as far as most reponsible folks round here shoot) there would be so little difference in the point of impact, they would never know the difference. But they would appreciate the lighter recoil and blast of the smaller round. Same goes for for other cartridges. I like seeing people shoot well. If they can't control their rifle, well you know where that will end up. In my experiance, the vast majority of folks don't know what they want. They only buy because someone says so, or the name is reconizable. I also worked with a couple guys who felt the opposite. "You HAVE to buy this or that. Your opinion doesn't count, I work here, I know all. You need a .30-06 with a 10x leupold for that 50 yard shot in the bush." Or "That .338 ultramag would be the perfect long range deer rifle. 300 yards is a long way's, you need somthing that will do the job well, it should work fine" People are very opionionated, I'm one of them. In my opionion, you should shoot a rifle that you will be comfortable with, and can shoot well. If you can only handle a .223 or .243, but wan't to hunt only deer, don't buy a .300 Win mag. If you can handle a little more recoil, and have time to shoot your rifle alot, maybe that .300 isnt such a bad thing.

Briman

The reason for all the offererings in SAUM, WSSM, WSM, RUM, etc is to sell rifles. The market is pretty much saturated for traditional calibers like .308, .270, and 30-06, or even .300 WM as just about everyone seems to have one already. Nothing wrong with all of the new offerings except that they really don't do anything that can't be done with a 30-06 for a lot cheaper, and most of these new fad magnums won't be around in 20 years.

Don't believe the hype.

driftrider

There isn't a darn thing wrong with the .30-06 Springfield, never has been and never will be. With the right bullet (and there are lots to choose from) at reasonable ranges it'll anchor any cloven hooved animal walking on the North American continent if the shoot does his part, period. If the salesman doesn't understand that they he's not the guy to talk to about guns. I've found that there are two types of guys at gun counters. Those who know guns and want to do their best to fit the right gun to you and your application, and the ones who only know how to SELL guns and want you to buy what they think you must have. I've run into the same thing you have with gun counter guys who will try to convince you that anything short of a 7mm Mag is a mouse gun, I usually don't let them have much of my time. I've even gone far as to ask to speak to another saleman on a couple rare occations where the BS was too much to handle and I started to get annoyed.

I usually like to approach a salesman I don't know like I'm totally gun ignorant just to test his knowledge and integrity. If they pass the test I'll deal with them, if they don't I'll claim to be "just looking" to shoo him off.

I'd say go somewhere else and get your dad his .338 Win Mag from somebody who isn't only concerned with the bottom line.

Mike

8mm/06

If I run into a salesperson or any store employee that doesn't know his sphincter from a gopher hole, I ask them if there isn't someone else in their department I could speak with. If there isn't anybody else there to help then I just bid them "good-day" and take my business else-where. I don't have time to waste.