Danny45

Nomercy, I'm surprised by your test results. One question, did you shoot the two rifles for groups? I'm interested to see how the .44 mag did. I still believe that the BC of the 30-30 makes it a better choice for longer ranges. How accurate was the .44 mag compared to the 30-30 beyond 100 yards?

Nomercy

Danny, actually, we tested four rifles, two of my marlin 1894's (one a 1980's model and one a brand new 2003), 20" and 22" and two of his .30-30's, a 336 and a 30A, 24" and 26" respectively if I recall correctly....(BTW Is it the 30A or the 39A? One is a .30-30 and one is a .22lr, I just can't recall which is which at the moment).

We had two 4-16x glasses that swapped around and we each shot all four rifles (took two days!!). We did all shooting at 16x once things were sighted in (and other than muzzle velocities). All shooting was from a bench vise, calm "windless" day, sunny.

Mind you the following doesn't refer to all the ammo we tested, but what we get done with our pet handloads or best shooting factory ammo:

His 30A is quite good for accuracy, his 336 is a ways behind it, but still pretty good, if I recall he was getting 1.5" groups at 100yrds with his 30A, while his 336 was giving just a little over 2" at 100yrds.

My 1894's are a bit farther apart, the 1980's model has been ran ragged by my father and myself, I get 4" groups at 100yrds on a good day, 4.75" is more average for it....My new 1894 is superb on accuracy, 2" at 100yrds isn't asking much of it with good loads, it really likes Winchester super-x half jacketed soft points, and of course I've tinkered various handloads around to similar accuracy.

rkbo

The ballistic program I have shows the 30-30 170gr having 990ftlbs at 200yds shooting 1619fps and the best 44 mag is the 275gr getting 729ftlbs at the same distance still clocking 1093fps.
The 30-30 shoots so much flatter that I still would go with the 30-30. The thing is if you load a super hot 44 mag you should load a super hot 30-30 to compare it with.

bigbulls

Forget both of them and buy a .444 Marlin.

It gives you the best of both worlds. A big heavy bullet and all the trajectory you need to hunt any animal this country can throw at you out to atleast 200 yards.

Remingtons 240 grain factory loads are great for deer size game and if he wants to hunt bigger and badder animals than deer like elk and moose and bears bump it up to the Hornady 265 grain light mag load, Corbons 280 grain load, or one of the Buffalo Bore loads.

Nomercy

Bigbulls, I tried a .444M on for size when they first came out, and I honestly wasn't very impressed...it's a good round, but at the time, it was limited to basically the same effectiveness of the .44mag. This problem may have been alleviated by now, as at the time it was basically a problem with bullet performance, no one made a rifle bullet in .429/.430", so your effective hunting range was basically that of a .44mag handgun....It filled a gap, so to speak, between the .44mag rifle and the .45-70 in power, but not in performance, given a good rifle bullet, I'd say it would bridge the gap better, but already having .44mag rifles and .45-70 rifles, I didn't need one in between...the .44mag's good to 150+/-yrds in my hands, and the .45-70's good as far as I can see (I've done a lot of shooting at 6-800yrds with it). Having a .444M that does 175-200yrds didn't serve much purpose for me. If I didn't have any of the rifles I have and didn't shoot .44mag so much, I'd still buy the .45-70 first, but might consider the .444M

rkbo, not many men will argue "program data" against proven field results...as I said, it surprised even myself, but the proof is in the pudding...BTW, re-read my second post on here, you'll be surprised about your "so much flatter" trajectory. Your program likely figured the data for a handgun for the .44mag, most of them do, at which point I'll refer you to the fact that I'm shooting a rifle with a stronger receiver and about 4 times the bbl length.

bigcountry

Nomercy, I know you a young smart engineering guy full of pi$$ and vinagar and but I think you need to rerun your numbers. A 30-30 shooting a 150gr bullet Sierra FP at 2300fps (nothing uncommon has a BC of .224. At 100 yards, has energy of around 1244 ft/lbs at 1933fps.

A .44mag shot thru a rifle, 240gr Sierra FP, with a BC of .185 and at 1800fps (HOT), and flattens primers when I try it with 24.5gr of H110 has 1090ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards and 1431fps when calculating manually. With Infinity, and varible BC depending on velocity, still only 1143ft/lb. still not being more stout.

I know how bad you want the .44 mag to be more stout but the numbers you have don't jive, unless you are pushing the .44mag at 2000fps at the muzzle. And if so, thats the fastest .44 I have ever seen. And at 200 yards, the wheels comes off the cart due to the extremely high BC on that bullet.

bigcountry

I see how ya got your numbers. You ran 125gr bullets. I am just not used to shooting 125gr bullets in a 30-30. Actually don't know anyone that does. I know remington doesn't load them. Maybe federal offers some. Only used to 150gr and 170g. Still you can pick any bullet/velocity combo out of the 44mag, and not be stouter than the 30-30 with 150gr or 170gr energy or velocity wise.