M1 garand gas systems
03-08-2004, 04:53 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: dedham massachusetts USA
Posts: 1,361
M1 garand gas systems
i have been doing some homework on these guns gunsmith's and uppgrades since i have purchased this gun.
i have also been told that the original gas system is not made to tollerate the slow buring powders used in commercial hunting ammo.
does anyone know where i can pick up an aftermarket gas system that will let me use this fine gun for hunting?
i have also been told that the original gas system is not made to tollerate the slow buring powders used in commercial hunting ammo.
does anyone know where i can pick up an aftermarket gas system that will let me use this fine gun for hunting?
03-08-2004, 05:58 AM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro NC USA
Posts: 563
RE: M1 garand gas systems
Quilly,
I would try shooting it with factory ammo before I started looking into modifying or replaceing anything. In M-1, I have been shooting IMR-4350 and 168gr Match HPBT and 165gr HPBT's for 20 years now. I have had very few malfunctions over thousands of rounds. IMR-4350 is one of these slower powders that you are refering to.
The standard load data for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, M2 is a 147gr FMJ, with 50 grains of IMR-4895, 50,000 PSI chamber pressure, and with a velocity of 2740 FPS at 78' from muzzle.
I don't think you will have any problems shooting factory hunting ammo in your M-1.
I would try shooting it with factory ammo before I started looking into modifying or replaceing anything. In M-1, I have been shooting IMR-4350 and 168gr Match HPBT and 165gr HPBT's for 20 years now. I have had very few malfunctions over thousands of rounds. IMR-4350 is one of these slower powders that you are refering to.
The standard load data for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, M2 is a 147gr FMJ, with 50 grains of IMR-4895, 50,000 PSI chamber pressure, and with a velocity of 2740 FPS at 78' from muzzle.
I don't think you will have any problems shooting factory hunting ammo in your M-1.
03-08-2004, 06:39 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA USA
Posts: 570
RE: M1 garand gas systems
I'll second that. Try it before you start messing with anything. I've shot various factory ammo in my M1's with no problems. I haven't shot a lot of it, but at various times and with various M1's I've fired assorted oddball 30-06 ammo I've had lying around with no problems.
03-08-2004, 08:06 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: M1 garand gas systems
i have also been told that the original gas system is not made to tollerate the slow buring powders used in commercial hunting ammo.
I'm not going to doubt that the last two posters have had good experiences with factory ammo, but conventional wisdom says that you don't shoot bullets lighter than 147 gr or heavier than 180 gr, powders faster than IMR 3031 or slower than IMR 4064 in the M1.The gas system was designed for burning IMR 4895 with a 147-173 gr bullet. If you are going to shoot a few rounds a year through it, then factory ammo probably won't hurt much, you might shoot 5 rounds or mauybe 500 rounds before your oprod takes a crapper, but if you are going to shoot a few hundred a year and want to keep that funny little rod under the barrel from bending, breaking, or springing, I would STRONGLY suggest using only M2 ball, or buying a new Hornady reloading manual that has a section dedicated to reloading for the M1.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/gasnuts.cfm This link has an adjustable gas nut for the M1.
These work somewhat like adjustable gas systems on european semiautos- You start with the most wide open setting, and decrease the size of the aperture until the rifle cycles with a particular load.
03-08-2004, 08:56 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: M1 garand gas systems
While I'm here I might as well tell you other things you need to know about your M1.
How to strip it: Here's a site that shows you how to get the rifle apart- I would suggest leaving the handguards alone though, they don't need to be removed. http://www.surplusrifle.com/garand/d...mble/index.asp
Unfortunately, the site doesn't show you how to disassemble the bolt and the trigger group, which are both somewhat difficult the first time around.
If you go to www.odcmp.com they have a book called "read this first" which tells you how to do this. Give them a call and see if they will sell you one (costs something like $3 iirc) if they don't because you aren't qualified, send me and email, and I'll send you mine.
make sure the firing pin is clean- the firing pin is freefloating and will actually ding the primer when the bolt closes- you don't want it gunked up or it could slamfire.
On the subject of slamfiring- if you are going to reload- seat the primers below flush with the base of the case. Its best to use CCI-34 milspec primers, but I use winchesters without a problem.
Keep the chamber clean- the M1 combo tool has a brush for this, or get yourself a .45 pistol brush to clean the chamber with.
The M1 is one of the few rifles that needs to be lubed with GREASE. The locking lugs and locking lug recesses, oprod track, bolt raceway, and where the oprod rubs on the barrel need to be greased. You should also grease the other moving parts in the receiver. The only part in the trigger group that needs to be greased is the top of the hammer where the bolt runs across it. You can get military grease pots off ebay for probably $.50 a piece and they fit into the buttstock of the rifle. I use MILITECH-1 grease which I got for a free sample from their website. I've also used a grease made by Browning that comes in a syringe, but it doesn't seem to hold up as well. In a pinch, ball bearing grease will work also.
The gas piston will accumulate carbon deposits, you will want to scrape these off occasionally as they can flake off and cause wear and scoring in your gas cylinder. Use an old penny (copper penny not a newer zinc penny) to scrape the crud off. Use a large brush to clean the gas cylinder- do not lube the inside of it- it will cause more carbon to accumulate- just put a little grease on the piston and wipe it dry.
Use a muzzle protector when cleaning the barrel. Most M1 barrels wear out from improper cleaning rather than being shot out.
Sights- each click = 1 MOA. To zero your elevation at 100 yards, click the sight all the way down then click it up 10 clicks- 100 yard zero is different on each rifle but usually falls between 8 and 12 clicks. Go up 2 clicks from there for 200 yards, and up 3 more for 300 yards.
Take a look at your right thumb and notice how its not swollen, bleeding, or in great pain. To keep it that way, keep it out of the receiver unless the edge of your hand is holding the bolt back- that bolt flies forward really fast and will eat your thumb if you let it.
There's probably alot more that I missed, but this should get you pointed down the right parth.
How to strip it: Here's a site that shows you how to get the rifle apart- I would suggest leaving the handguards alone though, they don't need to be removed. http://www.surplusrifle.com/garand/d...mble/index.asp
Unfortunately, the site doesn't show you how to disassemble the bolt and the trigger group, which are both somewhat difficult the first time around.
If you go to www.odcmp.com they have a book called "read this first" which tells you how to do this. Give them a call and see if they will sell you one (costs something like $3 iirc) if they don't because you aren't qualified, send me and email, and I'll send you mine.
make sure the firing pin is clean- the firing pin is freefloating and will actually ding the primer when the bolt closes- you don't want it gunked up or it could slamfire.
On the subject of slamfiring- if you are going to reload- seat the primers below flush with the base of the case. Its best to use CCI-34 milspec primers, but I use winchesters without a problem.
Keep the chamber clean- the M1 combo tool has a brush for this, or get yourself a .45 pistol brush to clean the chamber with.
The M1 is one of the few rifles that needs to be lubed with GREASE. The locking lugs and locking lug recesses, oprod track, bolt raceway, and where the oprod rubs on the barrel need to be greased. You should also grease the other moving parts in the receiver. The only part in the trigger group that needs to be greased is the top of the hammer where the bolt runs across it. You can get military grease pots off ebay for probably $.50 a piece and they fit into the buttstock of the rifle. I use MILITECH-1 grease which I got for a free sample from their website. I've also used a grease made by Browning that comes in a syringe, but it doesn't seem to hold up as well. In a pinch, ball bearing grease will work also.
The gas piston will accumulate carbon deposits, you will want to scrape these off occasionally as they can flake off and cause wear and scoring in your gas cylinder. Use an old penny (copper penny not a newer zinc penny) to scrape the crud off. Use a large brush to clean the gas cylinder- do not lube the inside of it- it will cause more carbon to accumulate- just put a little grease on the piston and wipe it dry.
Use a muzzle protector when cleaning the barrel. Most M1 barrels wear out from improper cleaning rather than being shot out.
Sights- each click = 1 MOA. To zero your elevation at 100 yards, click the sight all the way down then click it up 10 clicks- 100 yard zero is different on each rifle but usually falls between 8 and 12 clicks. Go up 2 clicks from there for 200 yards, and up 3 more for 300 yards.
Take a look at your right thumb and notice how its not swollen, bleeding, or in great pain. To keep it that way, keep it out of the receiver unless the edge of your hand is holding the bolt back- that bolt flies forward really fast and will eat your thumb if you let it.
There's probably alot more that I missed, but this should get you pointed down the right parth.
03-08-2004, 10:11 AM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro NC USA
Posts: 563
RE: M1 garand gas systems
I gues my M-1 is the true exception rather than the rule. To date I have over 10,000 rounds thru it, I am on my 3rd barrel, and THE SAME ORGINAL OPROD! I gues I may have to replace now that I know it not supposed to last more than 500 rounds with IMR-4350 powder. Thanks, BRIMAN.
03-08-2004, 11:01 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: M1 garand gas systems
Quilly, if you use standard ballistics .30/'06 ammo in 165 grain bullet weight or lighter, you will have no problems at all with an M1! It is 180 grain or heavier bullets loaded to max. pressures with H4831 or slower powders that cause M1 problems (bent operating rods). Avoid Hornady Light Magnum and Fed Hi-Energy loads as well, and you should have no problems. The G.I. M2 Ball ammo was loaded with a 150-grain spitzer flatbase and the armor-piercing round with a 165-grain AP bullet. Both loads used however much powder of IMR 4895 or a burning-rate equivalency ball powder to reach a muzzle velocity of +- 2800 FPS @ +-50,000 PSI.
03-08-2004, 11:49 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro NC USA
Posts: 563
RE: M1 garand gas systems
Exactly! That is what I have been trying to get across. Quilly doesn't handload, so he will be strictly shooting factory ammo, so he has a few choices, either shoot mil-surp ammo strictly, shoot mil-spec ammo, shoot a factory non-magnum or non-high engergy loads, or a combination of all. But by all means stay away from those high performance, high energy, and light magnums loadings! They indeed will bend an OpRod in short order.
As I stated earlier, the standard load data for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, M2 is a 147gr FMJ, with 50 grains of IMR-4895, 50,000 PSI chamber pressure, and with a velocity of 2740 FPS at 78' (as in feet) from muzzle. This is straight out of the TM 43-0001-27. If the
As I stated earlier, the standard load data for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, M2 is a 147gr FMJ, with 50 grains of IMR-4895, 50,000 PSI chamber pressure, and with a velocity of 2740 FPS at 78' (as in feet) from muzzle. This is straight out of the TM 43-0001-27. If the
03-08-2004, 02:00 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: dedham massachusetts USA
Posts: 1,361
RE: M1 garand gas systems
once agan thank you all for your time to give me a hand.
i have taken some parts apart and cleaned them and put them back together. i shot about 40 rounds of the american eagle brand federal FMJ 150gr.
if i try ammo for hunting in her it will be strictly 150gr. bullets. most likely barnes-X bullets. i have also been told about the floating fireing pin that was used to have problems with todays thinned primers as the action slams the round into the chamber. the old M2 ball ammo had a thicker primer and would have non of these problems.
may i ask a question on top of a question?
what would you all do it you had to send your gun out? mil-tech or DGRguns ? my gun does have to get re-parkerized on that part that holds the bayonet. also the reciever itself where the en-bloc would go the sides have a decent amount of lite dusting of rust. so i would like to get her done over. to original specs. when i bought it it was supposed to be at 75%. the guy who owned it before did the stock over a bit. the barrel is not shot out but is getting glossy, not pitting. stand up shooting at 50-75yds i got i guess for a 60+ year old gun ( not trying for accuracy ) pie sized plates with the ocassional stray. she is quite the firearm and i am still glowong on how she feels and shoots.
i have taken some parts apart and cleaned them and put them back together. i shot about 40 rounds of the american eagle brand federal FMJ 150gr.
if i try ammo for hunting in her it will be strictly 150gr. bullets. most likely barnes-X bullets. i have also been told about the floating fireing pin that was used to have problems with todays thinned primers as the action slams the round into the chamber. the old M2 ball ammo had a thicker primer and would have non of these problems.
may i ask a question on top of a question?
what would you all do it you had to send your gun out? mil-tech or DGRguns ? my gun does have to get re-parkerized on that part that holds the bayonet. also the reciever itself where the en-bloc would go the sides have a decent amount of lite dusting of rust. so i would like to get her done over. to original specs. when i bought it it was supposed to be at 75%. the guy who owned it before did the stock over a bit. the barrel is not shot out but is getting glossy, not pitting. stand up shooting at 50-75yds i got i guess for a 60+ year old gun ( not trying for accuracy ) pie sized plates with the ocassional stray. she is quite the firearm and i am still glowong on how she feels and shoots.
