keylargo

I have just been checking out the new 6.8 remington developed for the military and now being put on the market for the ar15 crowd. Its nice to know that they are finally trying something other than the 223 for combat. To bad it will probably be restricted to special forces.
I have to say for the record that I will always think that the 223 could be a great combat round if they let us load it with ballistic tip ammo,but oh well Id hate to actually hurt anyone!!

frizzellr

I never have nor will I ever like the 5.56mm as a manstopper, I don't care what it is loaded with. Give me back my 7.62mm.

GordonGekko

Manstopper it's not, but a wounded person ties up more resources than a dead one in wartime. I hate it, but one wounded will take someone to carry him back, and the dead can be left, at least that's the theory. Of course, I still think that they need to get away from the 9mm sidearms, too and go back to 45's.

Gordon

frizzellr

You do realize that we are one of the few that will tie up resources to move wounded off a battlefield? Most of our enemies let them lie there until the battle is over so that theory is not a valid one just as the 223 is not a good combat cartridge.

GordonGekko

Well, I agree now, but during the time the 223 was adopted the Soviets were considered our most likely foe, and at that time I believe that it was believed that this theory was valid, at least as it pertained to them, and that is how it has been explained to me. However, I agree that things have changed since then, and our main foe now has hardly any respect for human life. I've never liked the 223 as a combat cartridge, and if it were up to me they'd go back to the M14's, I don't like tupperware (no matter how well it works), I was just passing along the theory as I learned it. I have heard a rumor that the 5.56mm cartridge was goinge to be replaced, and that in the next 3 years the announcement of the replacement for the M16 (and it's variants) will be made. Maybe the 6.8mm is a step in the right direction.

Briman

The .223 isn't a good manstopper?
I remember about a year and a half ago we had a couple of islamic terrorists on our soil shooting civilians. DC snipers ring a bell? Just about everyone the shot died, the ones who didn't die were severely wounded. All of the victims were shot once with a .223.

Darn near every country in the world that has used a 6.5 mm military cartridge has abandoned it. the japanese and the Italians found that it wasn't a very good stopper because it was much too stabile and didn't create big wounds. The .223 works because the bullet tumbles when it hits flesh and tears a big jagged hole through a carcass. The 7.62x39 is even better- makes me wonder why they didn't simply adopt this cartridge instead.

keylargo

Sorry,I have to chime back in. Let me restate that I do think that a 223 with an explosive type of bullet would stop people most of the time in most situations but I am really not a fan of the 223 in combat. I have never figured out why we went that direction in the first place.
The idea of wounding someone being better than killing them has no place in our modern world against the ememies we now face and you can not compare the D.C. Sniper case to combat. It isnt the same thing at all.

thndrchiken

It was adopted because the foot soldier could carry up to three times as much ammo, and the 7.62x51 ( 308 win ) in full auto was considered too hard to control in the jungle. As a sidenote Marine snipers generally preferred the 308 or 300 WM.

Briman

Q?:
I hear alot of humming and drumming about how the .223 is not effective in combat.
How many of you have used it in combat?
Have any of you shot anyone or witnessed firsthand anyone being shot with a .223?
Have you ever seen a wound on a human caused by a .223?

Also what is wrong with a cartridge used in wartime that doesn't cause someone who is hit to be flipped up in the air and cause instantaneous death due to massive shock? I thought the idea of combat was not neccessarily to kill people but to stop them from fighting? Would not a serious wound from a .223 be sufficient?

akbound

Hey guys,

Give me friendly air support.....and all of it....that's stopping power! Anything less than that.....doesn't seem like enough.