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Remington 700 sps stainless .300 wsm not grouping

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Remington 700 sps stainless .300 wsm not grouping

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Old 12-06-2018, 07:44 PM
  #21  
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Not like I am making something up. It is common belief to let the barrel cool between shots. So I am saying you are being disagreeing cause I wrote. This is site where I can not say anymore than that.

I don't need to take about thermal coffecients, though I suspect I have great deal more education on it than you. I have seen what happens with hot barrels. I could as poorly educated as you, and and still observe this. No math needed.



All I did was say the guy should try speading the shots out and see. Not like I am asking him to spend any money or make any effort. Very easy to try. If if it doesn' work he is out an hour. But you would rather argue with me than help someone.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:33 PM
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Seems others have asked the question before. Various opinions on how long, but not a topic I made up, to avoid helping someone.
Should I let the Barrel Cool Down Between Shots?

hot barrel - accuracy
Wait for rifle to cool between shots
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:38 AM
  #23  
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My Steyr will walk up from heat almost 1 MOA if I shoot it hot. Hot is a relative term, if I shoot a quick three shot group, the last shot of the group will invariably be a little higher than the other two shots and the next quick group will continue the line up.
The nature of the beast is the amount of material in contact with the chamber isn't symmetrical, so the heat is uneven. It doesn't take many thousandths of an inch of barrel movement to make a a significant difference at a hundred meters.
I have no problem with it because I know what is going to happen and can compensate.
IMO it happens to all rifles, some more than others. And this is more speculation than knowledge, bull barrels may slow down the process but it is doubtful they are going to mitigate it completely. I have no doubt that I can measure the movement on a solid block of steel using either cold or heat.
I'm not an engineer I'm a welder and have a bit of practical experience of what metals do when heated-

Barrel flex may not be all of the issue, usually it is a combination of things.

The poster said he tried four different kinds of ammo. Leads me to believe he has been doing a lot of shooting. I'd stick with one type of ammo. let the barrel cool between shots and try to find somebody to watch you shoot that may notice some flaw in technique. Fit is a big thing for me, I'm 6'3" tall and firing a rifle that fits poorly messes with my shooting. Getting the proper eye relief on my scope, a well fitting rifle and constancy of technique were the big hurdles for me, Then I moved on to trigger and ammo and did some fine tuning.
I have what I call a no flinch trigger on my Steyr, a set trigger that you can almost blow on and fire the rifle. I can feel the muscles tighten in my face when I shoot my 7MM Mag from the prone position. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a little shy when firing that 7MM while laying down.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:59 AM
  #24  
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lets make a few non rifle loonie heads spin ,
now I have not tried this with jacketed bullets but I see no reason it would not work in a similar manor

I have got too point out that if you have a large bore, rifle or revolver that you want to hunt with ,using hard cast gas check bullets,
and you intend to both maximize accuracy,
and reduce or eliminate bore lead deposit's.
(especially if your using hard cast , gas check,
bullets to hunt with, like I've used for decades)
cleaning the bore Of each firearm with a lot of solvent soaked patches,
(old cotton sheets cut into 1"x3" rectangles work ok on most 44-50 caliber revolvers, or rifles )
and a brass bore brush until you have no trace of jacket or lead fouling,
then , after the bores squeaky clean, soaking a couple patches , until they drip, with moly spray and working it back and forth in the bore surface, and repeatedly soaking those patches with moly, to coat the rifling with a good film of moly, then swabbing the bore clean with a solvent patch and dry patch, seems to very noticeably reduce future leading and fouling and in many revolvers.
yes it leaves a darker semi shiny surface in the bore,
as theres a thin micro surface of embedded moly,micro particles,
that might not look as bright, as a polished metal surface ,
but it darn sure seems too form a slick, extra well lubricated ,
and fairly durable protective surface barrier that resists fouling.
this will all but eliminate leading if you use the proper sized and lubed gas checked cast bullets, cast from that 95% wheel weight and 5% pure tin alloy Ive used for decades, even in rifles where the velocity reaches up to about 1800 fps.
I can shoot both my 44 mag caliber revolvers and 44 mag caliber marlin carbine and 450 marlin caliber BLR ,458 LOTT, etc.
with cast bullets, and a solvent soaked patch shows powder residue,
but no leading in the rifling once the bores carefully been pre-treated with a good moly soak down,
(which I repeat on returning home with, each firearm, and after each cleaning after a hunting trip or trip to the local rifle range.)


https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-clean-a-gun-1927314


http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica...cteristics.htm

Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving surfaces in contact, rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on the rifle bore surface, This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your rifles bore surface



The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your bore wall surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the bore to projectile surface contact

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all micro bore imperfections making them smoother. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal

This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. The high pressures that occur between these moving surfaces that tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.






http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica...cteristics.htm


If you only lube a few hundred cast bullets a year, Id say buy the commercial lube sticks as its not worth the effort to make up batches of lube
, but if you load thousands of cast bullets, then yes its well worth the effort and you can improve on most commercial lube results, and save some cash making your own lube, but its just not worth the effort or cost of doing it for a few hundred bullets a year, but once your casting bullets in larger batches that easily fill several gallon plastic containers , several times a year ,its a different deal.
If your adding your home brew lube to your bullet sizer, you can either make the effort to force it in in chunks or you can simply heat some to the point its a semi liquid and pour it in and let it cool.
I usually find I don,t have the patients to wait while I melt and let it cool and find I just open the cylinder , force in chunks and use a hair drier to heat it up a bit to make cramming the chunks in a bit easier, the air pockets will be removed as the piston forcing the lube thru the sizer compressed the lube chunks , but Ive also found I can drop a muffin paper full of lube from my supply into a 6 quart aluminum pan I got for $1 at a yard sale that I place on my lead melter while it heats up, and that solves that problem.
and youll be VERY familiar with the process of refilling a lube/sizer once your bullet count is measured in several gallon containers per session.
use of a LUBE SIZER with the correct punch and sizing dies helps consistency and accuracy.
50% bees wax
20% moly axle grease
30% alox works great
then add one 6 oz pack of MOLY powder too each 5 lbs of lube mix, and stir into molten mix
the use of this lube constantly forces a replacement film of moly into the bore surface as the existing moly is depleted though wear and heat

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0157631412


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...ly-powder-6-oz


btw if your going to cast bullets wait till the molds clean and hot then lightly spray the mold interior surface with moly spray, as it helps the cast bullets fall easily from the mold and makes casting process faster and more consistent. and spraying the cast bullets with moly spray after they are sized and lubed , and before they are loaded into the cases,certainly seems to reduce barrel fouling


Ive used that lube in my 44 mag and 45/70, 450 marlin lever action carbines with cast bullets for decades , while I rarely exceed 1800-1900 fps I also get almost ZERO leading in the rifling and very good accuracy

Last edited by hardcastonly; 12-07-2018 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:17 AM
  #25  
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http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...re-a-more-durable-lube-sizer.9299/#post-33595
youll need a lube sizer and dies and a top punch matching the bullets to be lubed and sized

a custom mix Ive found works very well is BY VOLUME , mix 50% BEES WAX ,

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
HERES A GREAT DEAL OF RELATED INFO
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_5-0_BulletLubes.htm

http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm

20% moly axle grease
OR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183655 ... owder-6-oz
OR BOTH


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/466811 ... -oz-liquid

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000157631412/super-moly-extra-fine-powder-6-oz

Last edited by hardcastonly; 12-07-2018 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:05 AM
  #26  
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If you are able to elaborate upon HOW AND WHY stainless steel is more sensitive to heat than chromoly barrels, and as to why some rifles are more sensitive than others.

I welcome any opportunity for someone to teach me something, which is why I asked you to elaborate. You pointed at metallurgy as a potential issue, but didnt explain to any of us why, or how the OP could troubleshoot to determine whether his particular rifle is actually experiencing these problems.

I asked simply for your to elaborate. Maybe thats offensive to you, and I apologize if it is, as that wasnt my intent. I asked for more info. Youre the one who responded with snark and for some reason blame this forum for your statements.

Id STILL love to learn something new about the impact thermal expansion coefficients of different metals will affect their potential for accuracy, and how that applies to the OPs rifle, and how he might be able to troubleshoot to identify that as the cause of his problem, or cross it off of the list.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:10 AM
  #27  
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I spent a fair amount time shooting benchrest and often shoot as quickly as possible to eliminate (as much as possible) the effects of changing wind. As I use both stainless and CM barrels in target rifles with no discernable effect, I doubt that the type of steel in a sporter rifle barrel would matter much. Overall barrel quality does make a difference but that has many factors other than the basic material.

To the OP: Bedding the action and free floating the barrel are inexpensive improvements that normally makes a 700 shoot better. This is most notable in rifles firing harder recoiling cartridges. An aftermarket trigger is also nice.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:44 AM
  #28  
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My experience in BR, F Class, and now PRS has been the same as Big Uncles. When the wind matched (or at least appeared to match) my wind calls, I ran the shots as fast as I could. In PRS, you shoot as fast as you can. If your rifle walks as it heats up, you throw it in the creek and replace it.

Last edited by Nomercy448; 12-07-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:34 AM
  #29  
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Most casual hunters don't want to throw,away there gun.

again why ask how I work up my loads, when I believe this guy is using factory ammo? You just wanted to argue with me, and not help this guy.

I am all for bedding it. But he shouldn't have to get better groups than he is. Figure out what is going on before you introduce more variables.

I am paid to trouble shoot.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:25 PM
  #30  
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I didnt ask how you worked up your loads.

Just wanted to see if you might be so kind of describing WHY some rifles are more sensitive than others (apparently some grown @ss men are too), and why stainless steel in the Ops Rifle is making him vulnerable? Since youre paid to troubleshoot, I expected you might help the Op by offering advice for how to do so.

And when you commented 10-15min, I was wondering if you had done some testing to trend temps for different barrels, or had some thermodynamic math done to show the temperature decay. Since most shooters recommend 2-5min between shots for the barrel to cool, I was hoping maybe you had new data or some background science which would prove those old rules wrong in favor of the 10-15min you recommended.

Last edited by Nomercy448; 12-07-2018 at 12:37 PM.
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