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Could this save Remington?

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Could this save Remington?

Old 02-17-2018, 11:36 AM
  #11  
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Years ago every gun I owned was a Remington. Today, except for a couple old 700s and 870s, I've replace them with what I consider better quality firearms like Browning, Tikka and CZ.
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Old 02-17-2018, 01:53 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
Years ago every gun I owned was a Remington. Today, except for a couple old 700s and 870s, I've replace them with what I consider better quality firearms like Browning, Tikka and CZ.
ID add SAKO , H&K, and JUST a FEW S&W firearms to that list

Last edited by hardcastonly; 02-17-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:23 PM
  #13  
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Remington has already reached an agreement with its creditors to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy because of its $950 million debt.

Remington has faced a HUGE decline in sales and the credit rating firms Remington relies on say this decline is due to consumers fears that firearms will become more heavily regulated by the government.

President Trump says he will never, ever infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. But since Trumpís election in Nov 2016, American Outdoor Brands Corp (Remington) has lost almost TWO-THIRDS of its stock market value. Even companies like Sturm Ruger have stock falling 25%.

Remington will get $145 million in bankruptcy financing to fund the company through bankruptcy but they plan to file in bankruptcy court in Delaware to write off about $700 million in debt.

Now keep in mind that Cerberus Capital Management LP is a private firm that controls Remington and they will lose all their ownership in the bankruptcy. Then the biggest creditors (Franklin Templeton and JPMorgan) will get equity in the company for the monies owed them.

What will happen with these folks in charge is the question. Will they get new management teams in place and continue production with a new or streamlined plan? Or will they search out a buyer?

Here is real interesting info. Remington lost some investors after one of its Bushmaster rifles was used in the Sandy Hook school shooting in 2012 that killed 20 children and six adults. After the shooting, Cerberus tried unsuccessfully to sell Remington, then known as Freedom Group, after coming under pressure from some of its private equity fund investors.

Cerberusí Chief Exec considered a bid for Remington to stoke interest in the gunmaker from other potential acquirers in 2012. In 2015, Cerberus offered a mechanism to its fund investors that wanted to drop Remington, such as the California State Teachersí Retirement System, to sell their stakes back to the company. INTERESTING that the teachers union are invested in firearms, huh?

Keep in mind American Outdoors Brand Corp has a lot of product lines to support whatever may or may not happen with Remington.
Smith & Wesson
Thompson Center
Gemtech
Crimson Trace
Bog-Pod
Caldwell Shooting Supplies
Franklin Arsenal
Golden Rod
Hooyman
Imperial
Keygear
Lockdown
Non-Typical Wildlife Solutions
Old Timer
Shrade
Tipton
Uncle Henry
Bubba Blade
Wheeler Engineering

Another thing to consider is Remington ammo. It may be that Remington makes more money from ammunition sales than firearms.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:38 PM
  #14  
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Remington did not listen to the demands of the market.


30 years ago, people wanted wood and steel, a rifle that would last forever, and that would be handed down through the generations. Remington made some of those, and developed a loyal customer base.


Today the market has two categories.


The first is the people who want low priced and accurate. (Notice I didn't say JUNK here)
The second is the people who are willing to pay to get exactly what they want (these are the people buying customs, semi customs, and the higher end factory rifles.


For the most part Remington lands in the middle of these two categories.


The people who have money, don't really want an off the shelf CDL. The people who don't have money, also don't want to pay 800-1200 for a 700.


Remington made some ADLs that were cheaper but still good quality. I have one that shoots very well.


Remington's entry level rifles were basically junk. You never heard anything good about the 710s,770s. I've heard some good things about their new 783 but I haven't shot or held one myself.


Even in the 700s you typically hear that other manufacturers are more accurate out of the box. Probably more rifle builds are done on 700 actions, but the out of the box accuracy is lacking compared to other (cheaper) options if the internet reviews are to be believed.


-Jake
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:09 AM
  #15  
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The old man was a Winchester fan as am I. But he did build a few rifles on 700 actions. Many many more on Mauser actions though. The smokeless ML I finished up is built around a 700 single shot shorty. Have to say it is a fine action but it's more of a custom job. The old man traded 2 Mauser actions for it. Basically, all gun makers in America are experiencing much lower sales at the moment because there aren't as many chicken littles yelling the sky is falling with Trump in office. Obama was the best gun salesman in our time.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:17 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
Years ago every gun I owned was a Remington. Today, except for a couple old 700s and 870s, I've replace them with what I consider better quality firearms like Browning, Tikka and CZ.
I still have 4 Model 700s in 7mm Mag, 6.5x55 Swede, 375H&H and a 54 cal Muzzleloader. But for the last few years all I have used is a CZ Model 550 American in 9.3x62 Mauser. It does everything I need a rifle to do.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:10 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by uncle matt View Post

President Trump says he will never, ever infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. But since Trumpís election in Nov 2016, American Outdoor Brands Corp (Remington) has lost almost TWO-THIRDS of its stock market value. Even companies like Sturm Ruger have stock falling 25%.
Of course it's believable that gun stocks are down while other parts of the economy are doing great! Obozo was the greatest gun salesman of all time! The fear of a Hildabeast presidency was a major boost too! Ironically, now that we have the most pro-gun president since Reagan, gun sales are dropping!
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:34 AM
  #18  
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Our firm occasionally has to deal with corporate bankruptcy issues and it is usually either the end of a corporation or the best thing for them.

In this case Remington is asking the current creditors to exchange debt for equity. This would remove 700 million dollars of debt from the balance sheet and also remove the interest expense on that debt from the income statement. The interest on 700 million dollars is a very large amount and it's removal should return the corporation to profitability. The current creditors would step into the position of ownership.

A bankruptcy of this type is for protection from creditors while the corporation is reorganizing under the watchful eye of the courts. The creditors will often have great incentive to see the corporation come out of this in good shape if they ever want to be paid. Although sometimes it is a hopeless situation and the best thing for the creditors is to see the corporation dissolve and pick the bones, that does not look like the case here.

Whatever the new equity group might do with the corporation is of course unclear but my bet is that they will want to sell their equity interests after the reorganization. I think that Remington will eventually come out of this as a stronger and more efficient organization.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:17 PM
  #19  
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If they are going to come out of it, they better go back to quality over cheap. They made their bones with the 760 and the MOD 700, then they they started to slowly go down hill, all the while other companies were coming out with less expensive better quality firearms. Of course then their was the discharges upon closing the bolt that they refused to acknowledge until too much damage was doe to the brand. They took over Marlin and ruined that brand. They have some high hurdles to climb over to stage a comeback.

Last edited by Oldtimr; 02-18-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:33 PM
  #20  
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I don't believe Marlin has been "ruined" though their quality surely isn't what it used to be. I think they have come back from the initial takeover mess and the rifles they are now making, though nowhere near the craftsmanship and detail of the past years, are pretty fair rifles for the money. Sadly I can't say the same for Remington rifles. Even while being owned by the same parent company, Marlin stepped away from Remington in in their quality control department. Of course comparing my old .30-30 made back in the 50's and one of my .444's made around 2010 or so brings a small tear to the eye if one looks deep at the attention to detail Marlin used to put into each rifle.
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