Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I have had my fill of poor quality rifles, Remington, Ruger, Winchester & Savage are all brands of rifles I have owned. I am tired of buying these manufactures junk rifles.
I have a Ruger M-77 Mark-II 270-Winchester that will barly shoot 2" groups. This Ruger came from the factory with a lawyer installed 8-pound trigger. [:@]
I have a Savage that will shoot one hole groups. This rifle has a bad trigger and very poor quality on all parts. I have seen third grade kids take more pride in there work than Savage.[:@]
Winchester What can I say good about them?................. I guess nothing! I owned two of there rifles in the past neither would shoot & both were of poor quality.
Remington Proud makers of JUNK. All Remingtons come complete with bad triggers, poor fit to finish quality & cheap barrels. I think Fred Sanford from Sanford & Son is there CEO.



I am going to start selling all of my junk rifles & buy only custom rifles from makers like David Gentry, Kenny Jerret & Dan Cooper.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

The answer is Tikka, Sako, and Browning.:D

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

If I had a rifle that shot one hole groups, I wouldn' t care if it was pink!!!! Get a decent trigger for it and be happy!!!! Or better yet, sell it to me.... CHEAP!!!!

I do agree with Briman though. Browning and Tikka are hard to beat, but you probably won' t like the composite magazine of the Tikka.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I agree with the guys above, Tikka, Sako or Browning.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

You' re on the right track...but include Browning with the Rugers, Remingtons, Winchesters, and Savages. Pretty work, but poor performance.

Clint

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

If the Savage with the horrible trigger can shoot a " one hole group" , then what could a better trigger do for it? Shoot less than a one hole group??

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Wolfkiller,would you please let me know what " junk" Ruger' s and Remington' s you have for sale? I am interested in purchasing all that you have, how about $50 a piece, I think that' s a fair price.....after all you said they were " junk" rifles right? You can keep the Salvage though, one holer or not (cough**cough) I have enough door stops already.


doubleA

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I somewhat agree.....I' ve learned that a good rifle means you got to fix some " little" things....triggers. bedding, barrel float, ...

Anyone that buys a gun today almost has to fix them before they are hunt worthy. and it takes some skills to do that.

Either step up to higher priced guns or learn to fix the common guns of today. The only reason that todays guns are so poor is that we continue to buy them.

Go figure!!

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Well myself and the people I know must be getting all the good rifles.:D I purchased 2 Ruger VT' s in .243 and .308, both shoot under .75 inch 5 shot group. Right out of the box and no alterations. My brother has a Ruger #1 in .280 and shot better than 1 inch groups, then installed a fore end accurizer, now it is under .75 inch. His 77/22 hornet is a tack driver.

My gunsmith has a Ruger Mark II .308, and a VT in .223, both shoot exceptionally well. I know Ruger gets a bad rap, but from what I have seen and experienced, there is a lot of quality. Of course all of us reload too, which helps alot.

All manufacturers will have some lemons in a production run of anything they make whether it be cars or rifles. Mass production will never be as good a custom produced good.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Danny45
The Savage I have is a Model 12-FV chambered in .223, this rifle really will shoot one ragged hole. The problem is the overall quality of the rifle itself.

I am just tired of manufactures stamping out poor quality firearms. Just take a good look at your hunting rifle. Look at the bolt is it smoth & quiet? Look at the fit & finish of metal to wood? Does the trigger have creep right out of the box? Does the trigger have a heavy (6-8 pounds) pull weight? How about the Barrel? Does the action need to be bedded? Is the barrel free floated? Is the trigger gaurd made of plastic or pot metal?

Sorry guys every rifle I pick up Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage, Browning & Tikka. I have never owned a Tikka But I have handled one in the shop & shot it at the range. I was not impressed, junk with a new name. I have owned firearms from all other manufactures listed above at one time.
The one rifle that I have held & worked the action on but never fired was the Sako Deluxe. If the Sako Deluxe shoots as good as it looks it should be a good rifle.

I ordered a Cooper rifle today after I made my first post. I will have it in 13-months. I told them I am tired of the run of the mill junk. They gaurantee there rifles. I have held & worked the action on Cooper rifles The rifle will cost me $1,800 but it will be worth the wait. I am having it chambered in 6.5 x 284. This will be my deer & antelope rifle. I plan on having a second rifle built for elk & bear hunting. I am not sure of my second caliber?
I might order a 7mm x 300-Weatherby?
One thing for sure I won' t buy junk.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

sounds like there is nothing wrong with the rifle at all, it does what it is supposed to do. I don' t think there is anything wrong with the guns, just with the owner. Sounds more like you want a gun that will impress other people when you show it off than a gun that simply does what it is supposed to do.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I agree with you, when you pay 5 or 600 dollars for a darn rifle, it ought to work right, be pretty, drive nails, and have a good trigger. I wish the people that make honda atv' s made rifles. That would be a fine piece of shootery.
I got a ruger mk II 7mm mag and it took me 3 years and $250 more dollars to get it accurate.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Briman
I want to buy a gun that I can mount & bore sight a scope, clean it & take it to the range.

I do not want to buy a rifle that needs to be left at the gunsmiths shop. I give a gunsmith a list to do. Trigger job, bed the action, free float the barrel. I even bought one new rifle that had a bad safety. The gun would not fire straight from the factory. The gunsmith had fixed that also.
I almost forgot I bought a Weatherby that would not fire everytime due to the firing pin being a hair too short. I sent it back to weatherby they told me what the problem was & they fixed it. I got my rifle back 12-weeks later.[:@]
When I buy a new rifle it is a investment. I think the manufactures are building as cheap of firearms as the market will allow them to sell.
It' s kind of like buying a new truck only to find that the tire they put on it are crap that won' t last 10,000-miles.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I' m sorry, but how many guns have you bought? All of a sudden, you have like 50 faulty guns - ones that won' t fire, ones with faulty safeties... in all my experience with rifles - mine, my family' s, my friends' - I' ve never seen a new rifle that was actually faulty in any way.

And if you think a Tikka is crap... I just don' t know what to say to that. Did you work the action? Seriously.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I guess all my rifles from the manufactures you listed were flukes from the factory.All of them shoot well under 2 inch groups and some shoot 1 inch groups. I have friend who bought a Tikka and had to do a little work to make it shoot better. All factory rifles need a little work, if they didn' t and you could just take them out and shoot 1/2 inch groups. You' d be complaining that they were to expensive.
Why do most Police sniper and Military sniper rifles use Winchester model 70 or Remington model 700 actions if they are " junk" ?

Besides doing a little of your own customizing is part of the fun of breaking in a new rifle.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Wolf Killer,

You sound I a person who complains about everything, wether the problem is real or not.

The majority of todays mass produced rifles are of a high quality for the money. The heavy triggers on todays rifles are do to the legal system not the manufacturer. Glass bedding is nice but adds an extra cost that, like it or not, don' t want to pay.

When you buy a custom rifle you' ll have new complaints. The rifle wasn' t delivered on time, trigger is 1/10th oz heavier than I wanted, the chamber was very tight(especially on wildcats), the action isn' t as smooth as I think it should be, and the list continues. Oh, Kenny Jarret builds his famous rifles on the 700 action, just something to think about.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Wolf Killer
I can somewhat understand your frustration because I' ve been there. In a perfect world all rifles would be flawless tack drivers out of the box and at one time that was my expectation. I learned long ago the world is not perfect and also now accept that our Winrugrems are not " customs" individually built and fitted by hand by caring gunsmiths - if they were we would not be able to afford them. In spite of the likelyhood of a new Winrugrem needing a few touch-ups I think the quality is pretty darn good and I am now very satisfied with my Rugers and Winchesters. Few of us would expect a brand new domestically built automobile to be that perfect - a few adjustments or minor fixes on the first check-up is pretty well the norm. Want to avoid this buy a Mercedes or BMW (read Sako or Kimber) but even then there' s no guarantee.

One problem with customs - they usually only have high value to the individual having them originally built. Personally I don' t hardly bother to give a used " custom" a second glance at a gun show but a pre-64 70 now that' s another story.

Good luck with your custom and hope you find rifle bliss and happiness with it. gg.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

While I don' t think firearms made today are " junk" , I do think cost-cutting measures are taken to turn them out en-MASS. Some years ago (circa 1994), I had bought a new Browning A-Bolt II Stainless Stalker. Since I didn' t have the money for a new Leupold at the time, the gun sat in a closet in the box waiting for a scope. While perusing rec.guns two months later, I noticed that there was a recall for that exact gun I bought. I notified Browning I had one of the defective guns and they sent me a shipping kit to send it to the factory. The gun was defective in that it would fire when dis-engaging the safety due to incorrect temper of the steel. Rather than ship it back to the factory, I took it back where I bought it and got my money back....I never would trust that gun, even if it was " fixed" . I instead bought a Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless. Moral of the story is that things will go wrong from time-to-time. If you want attention to detail on every part of the gun and hand fitted parts, get ready to pay $2000+. We are a throw away society...

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

For someone so knowledgeable, I' d think you might have heard of A TRIGGER JOB.

But hey, if you' re to the point where you are really PO' d with all of the " junk" , it' s your $$$ so spend it how you want. Only the buyer can justify the peceived value in their purchase.

Uncle Matt (in IL)

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I agree with the guys who say Tikka, Sako, or Browning.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Well from my experience most guns will shoot different with different bullets. I always try different rounds or reload to find the perfect round for the gun. When I shot silhouette I try numerous powder and bullets combos before I found the perfect combo for the gun. Sure it takes a lot of time and a little money but that' s the fun part of buying a new gun. Enjoy the experience. If all else fails....get you a Henry!!!:D

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Every gun i' ve ever owned needed a little tweeking to become a real shooter for my personal standards. Most will shoot acceptable right out of the box for hunting situations and out to 200yds. I have a friend who has a Sako that he bought many years ago and he says it shot good out of the box but he had it bedded and the barrel floated and it shot even better. Every rifle i own has had the action glass bedded and the barrel floated along with trigger work but all are shooters. The only rifle i have that was a real shooter right out of the box without any work is a Remington Sendero which would shoot anything i fed it under an inch at 100yds. I have since put a timney trigger in it and it doesn' t really shoot that much better but it feels much better to shoot with the lighter trigger. I think my next rifle will be a Sako because i' ve always wanted one and the first thing i' ll do is have the action bedded and the barrel floated before i even shoot it. I personally don' t think every gun needs to be worked on before it' s considered a hunting rifle and most if not all will do fine right out of the box for most hunting situations. I think it just depends on each individual and what kind of accuracy they' re trying to achieve. As for myself i' m just an old accuracy nut and i' m not happy until my guns shoot the way i think they should which is as accurate as i can get them.:D

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I guess one mans junk can be another mans treasure, but I have to agree with Wolf killer in some regards. Its almost shameful to compare any of the middle of the road sporters today with rifles from fifty years ago. Pick up a springfield or a mauser or a model 70 and then look at your tikka or browning and tell me straight in the eye that the quality is comparable. I know it will shoot straight, but for how long? And after how much alteration? And what kind of rifle will you have ten or fifteen years from now if you actually use it more than twice a year? But, you might as well wish in one shoe and $hit in the other one if you think you will ever get a fine rifle for five hundred bucks at walmart. Its not going to happen. There were junk rifles for sale in the fifties too. Savage model 340?? anybody remember that one? Sweetgum stocks and crude manufacturing all the way. Pressed metal parts that would fall apart in a year, just like today' s five hundred dollar rifles. Nothing has changed, then and now, you get what you pay for. Provided you would know a quality piece if it bit you on the nose. Otherwise you can go on singing the praises of ruger and savage in total ignorance and bliss. There are fine rifles to be had today, just not for five hundred dollars.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I am probably setting myself up here, (but what' s new?) have you even considered the T/C Encore? No bolt to work in, have it any caliber you want, good finish, accurate, and a decent factory trigger to boot.
But looking at your post you have probably already " been there, done that" and just forgot to mention it.;)

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

For over a decade, I was so used to getting a rifle, shooting, being unhappy, then taking to the gunsmith for the typical fix' s, trigger, free floating the barrel, and glass bedding. I always stayed away from the brownings cause I considered them " Jap junk" . Finally a guy had one for sale for a steal. So I picked up this Medallion in 308Win, and was pleasently surprised. No work was needed. Barrel was floated perfectly, I liked the 3 lug design, trigger was nice and crisp. Accuracy is great. And its design is very nice. (Beside the crappy safety). So I guess I have changed my ways. I have had about every brand, and this is one that is worth the money. I like the sakos and Tikkas, but cost a bit more.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Hmmm I have seen some Cooper rifles never fired one and the quality that I can see and feel is great but I have heard some rumblings from people that have them and are not quite satisfied with them. Kenny Jarrett is living on his past reputation ...there are plenty of custom builders out there that make a better rifle for 1/2 the cost...David Gentry overprices everything that comes out of his shop ...he did a trigger job on a Model 70 for me 8 years ago and it was unsafe but he has a great reputation at least Outdoor Life and Field and Stream say so. From an investment standpoint a Custom rifle may be the worst investment you can make. Buy one and by the time it comes out of the shop your lucky you can get 1/2 its price back. But its your money and one has to spend it as they see fit , if it makes you happy then by all means do it. Everytime I get fired up about buying a custom and look at the price tags I ask myself the same question. Is it going to shoot that much better than what I currently own and worth the 2 thousand dollar difference ? I can buy six of these rifles for the price of that one. The Short answer is Yes it will shoot incrementally better .. but maybe who knows it may not and by then after waiting min 6 months or more your really going to be pissed. I am not that big a fan of Remingtons as some may know but I still like the looks and feel of a 700 I have a few in the closet and they are all shooters ...some have had adjustments others are pretty stock and others were no good and had to find another home(yeah that soured me some on Remingtons). The same applies to most other brands of rifles. I find that by buying a Remington,Ruger, Winchester,Weatherby and then making minor adjustments that they are all suitable for hunting as we know it. Another thing Wolf Killer I am pretty tired of going to hunting camps and finding a guy there with a 40 year old Model 700 BDL in 30-06 with a 40 year old weaver scope on it that kills everything he sees and then 1/2 the rest of the hunters packing some and bragging about their wonder rifle/cartridge that costs more than some ATV and go home empty handed because they expect the rifle and scope to do all the work and have been bs' ed to death by very effective marketing .

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Try taking a look at the Kimber 84 or 8400. Very good fit and finish. My neighbors is a tack driver in 308. I do understand the statements you have made. I have several rifles from Remington and Browning. The fit and finish of the Browning' s is much better than the Remington. Although of the rifles I have all shoot very well with the exception of one old 700 ADL 30-06. I do reload and this cures many accuracty problems.

On the subject of only owning custom rifles, if you have the cash go for it. However, almost all of my rifles are semi custom. Meaning trigger job, barrel floated, and receiver bedded. I guess I expect to do these things to make the rifle a real shooter. Just my opinion.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Tikka or Sako, end of story!! I just bought a Tikka because of the reasons stated in your post. I was looking at browing, but I couldn' t be happier with my tikka. I have the T3 and am pleased with the composite magazine. If that is something that concerns you. Go with the White tail hunter which isn' t composite. Now for sako, if you have the money, there isn' t a better rifle on this planet in my opinion. I will someday definitly own a few of those. Worth every penny. My T3 shoots around a half inch 3 shot groups and the trigger is awesome. Can be adjusted with a allen wrench, and very crisp.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I bought a 700 Synthetic 257 Roberts. Sure nothing fancy but 1/2 inch groups from the box with factory ammo 3/8 inch with my first hand loads. Same holds true for my 700 Synthetic Rem in 22-250. I have a couple Savage rifles that shoot as well or better. Fit and finish? I don,t know. When they shoot that well I sure the hell don,t care and niether do the Game animals I hunt. I had a few custom rifles that shot that well and looked a little better for five times the price. Not worth it to me. Give me one that put the bullet where I put the cross hair and I am a happy man.:):):)

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

RELAX Wolfkiller!!! To me it seems that you are mad at one rifle and just feel like letting off some steam. It seems like you just want something that you can show off to everybody and are using the " bad rifle" syndrome as your excuse. I have a Savage with a 3 3/4 lb. trigger. Not great, but for a hunting rifle it doesn' t need a hair trigger. Everybody I know that has factory rifles has not done anything to them and they shoot fine and do the job. Thats a lot of rifles. I have never even heard of people who have such bad luck that every rifle they own is " junk." So what I am saying is shut up and quit wining. If you need to show off how much money you have, fine, just let us buy our " junk" rifles in peace and live happily ever after.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

They must sell the **** guns down in the states, because up here I' ve only got good things to say really with just about all the rifles, except for the exception of one Remington 30-06.

I guess they ship the best of them up here in Alaska.:D

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

oldelkhunter
You sound like you know what you are talking about. I am just tired of buying a rifle that does not shoot like it should out of the box. I must admit I did over react a little on my first two posts. Everything thing I posted before was true. I still ordered a Cooper 6.5 x 284.
I had just gotten back from the range with four rifles. When I was at the range I talked with a friend. We both got pissed about the poor quality control of new firearms. All of my hunting rifles are shooting good. I have spent extra money on them to get them shooting that way. I just feel like the firearms manufactures are cutting too many corners.

I am curious about the trigger job David Gentry did on your model-70? What did he do that made it unsafe???


I would like to thank everyone that took the time to reply. :)

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

So does that mean you are not going to be selling all of your " junk" rifles Wolf Killer? Man that' s a bummer, I was getting hyped!:D


No really.............my offer still stands... 1 rifle@$50 ea.:D

One man' s junky M700/M70/M77/MK V is another man' s custom platform...AA

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

doubleA
I think I am going to turn what I can of my own junk into custom platforms for myself. The first one to get wacked is a 270-winchester. The best I can do with this rifle is a 2" -group @100-yards. That' s with factory ammunition or handloads. This rifle is my biggest pain. I have tried finding a handload for this rifle for the past two years enough is enough.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Wolfkiller...as most people know when you slam a bolt home the gun should not fire...that was not the case with my Model 70...enough said. Unfortunately I never returned it to him and mentioned it to him because odds are he never touched it probably someone else in his shop and I am quite a distance from him...but for the prices he charges everything should be " PERFECT" if you get my drift. My buddy has a stainless MOdel 70 270 win with a walnut stock. Could not shoot better than 2" at 100 ...restocked it in a Mcmillan had the trigger done and added a one piece floorplate assembly. Gun still shoots almost exactly the same now it has an odd flyer now and then is the only noticeable change, Only thing can be wrong with that gun IMHO is it has a crap barrel. If he decides to screw another barrel on it he will haves 1500 in it he now has about 1000 in it now with the floorplate and Mcmillan stock...I bought a 700 KS SS 7 rem mag which is great rifle with exception of no floorplate(have to live with that) it cost me 825 dollars thru Gun List...it shoots Federal factory ammo into less than 1 inch... Its not quite a factory rifle but not that far off from 1 either. But I seriously doubt a 3-4000 or more custom can touch that KS especially if i start handloading it.. Now I know a lot of guys say buy Tiika or Sako and that lately has really started to irritate me I have had to hold off for awhile but here it comes. Never owned a Tiika just picked up and handled a T3 and felt it was a nice gun but I am not a plastics lover and it simply won' t work for me . Owned 2 Sakos both the previous version l591 and l691 not the 75 beautifully made great quality 1 was a Fiberclass in 06 and the other was a hunter in 308 both needed tweaking to shoot as from the factory trigger as well as bedding jobs..and because of their stupid recoil lug they are hard as heck to bed and certainly not a job for the casual gunsmith. You can keep the rings also ...they will never match Ruger rings for reliablility and standard dovetail rings for availability . I guess I couldn' t keep them around (Sakos) because every Remington and Ruger I owned out shot them. Go ahead Sako lovers out there flame me but for the price they both cost I didn' t get my moneys worth. So how in the heck can a rifle they make for less than 1/2 the cost be worth anything. Just my 10 dollars worth of opinions.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

EVER THINK ITS NOT THE GUN??????????????????

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

I was thinking the same thing highcountryuser.
Once in awhile a bad one might slip through. Not in the numbers Wolf Killer has gotten.There' s more to the story that we aren' t aware of.Chances are WK will pick apart his custom rifle when he gets it.I' m more then satisfied with my Ruger M-77' s.They might not be the tack driver as I would like but more then sufficent for hunting. Some people would complain if they were getting hung with a new rope.I' ll stick with my standard factory rifles and leave the customs to those who can afford them.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

highcountryuser & Ruger-Redhawk

You guys can keep putting me down if you want to?

I can shoot all of my rifles except for my Ruger Model-77Mk-II just fine. After they get the action bedded, the barrel is free-floated & the trigger gets worked on.

I just think most of the firearms manufactures are not giving us as good of product as they should?
When I save money for a year to buy one firearm, I expect something more for my money.

Ruger-Redhawk
I have a Ruger model-77 300-win mag that I bought 20-years ago. That gun will out shoot any other rifle I own. At the time that I bought the rifle I did not know what a trigger job was? Before I left the shop the store owner had that trigger set at 3-pounds. The owner was a good friend that would not sell me a rifle with a heavy trigger pull. This rifle with my handloads will shoot a honest 5/8" group at 100 yards. This rifle will also shoot most factory ammo in a 1" or better group.

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Wolf killer

highcountryuser & Ruger-Redhawk

You guys can keep putting me down if you want to?




Wolf Killer,
I wasn' t putting you down. It just seemed funny (or shameful) how you' ve had all these problems. I' ve had a few rifles and handguns that were substandard.but they were few and far between.You' ve had more then your share of them.Years ago I worked PT at a gun shop with a range. I wish I had a dollar for everyone who claimed the gun was faulty.It turned out in most cases that it was user error.Granted the newer guns aren' t built like ones from decades gone by but by no means could I call them junk.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: Poor quality firearms straight from the factory.
 

Ruger-Redhawk
What I am saying is I should not have to buy a new gun from a dealer & take it straight to a gunsmith. He does a trigger job, free floats the barrel & beds the action. After all this is done I finally have a rifle that shoots.

I almost feel like I am buying a brand new car off of the showroom floor that needs new tires, new shocks & wiper blades.:(