Yup, we're mixing apples and oranges here. "Minute of Angle," or "Minute of Arc" (MOA) is ... a measure of of angle (360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree, 60 seconds in a minute if you really want to go crazy measuring). "Inches" is a measure of distance.

They're not intended to be used together (i.e. 2" MOA). Because one CAN measure the distance subtended by an angle (or arc) of 1 minute, one can also assign a measurement of distance to that arc - that's where 1.047XXXXX" at 100 yards comes in.

Those aren't 1/4" clicks in your optics, those are 1/4 MOA clicks. That is, unless you're different and use 1/10 mil turret gear. A mil is another measure of angle or arc.

Bottom line though, avoid mixing inches into MOA references. Technical yes, but confusing nonetheless.

Correct. Simply a coincidence that 1 Minute at 100 yards is close to 1" at 100 leading to many folks confusing the two.

Stop with the .00001 stuff. LOL


Find the bullet your gun groups the best and then go hunting !!!

What do you consider acceptable for deer rifle accuracy?

I prefer a 2" or less group at the deer's distance.

with a shotgun, if i can put 5 slugs into a apple sized at 25 yards offhand group im happy but i know my guns do better. with my carbines (30-30, 7.62x39's, 7.35 caracano, 6.8 spc) i like to stay sub 3 moa at 50 yards with open sights, 2 moa or less if its scoped. with rifles i keep it as tight as it will get. this means no factory loads if i have dies, no open sights, bring a tripod and/or bipod to the field, strong magnification optics. basically to the point where i dont even think about a given number for accuracy but instead more focusing on working with the wind, range and eviromentals. it is my strong opinion that with a "rifle" that if a shooter has the skill to make a shot, the rifle HAS to be up to the job. deer rifles (note that im not saying carbines) should never hold a shooter back from making a shot in any manner, whether its the accuracy of the rifle or the caliber or even the repeatability of the zero. placing a shot on a deers vitals should never be a measure of the rifle, its a measure of a hunters marksmanship.

With having to agree with RR, Wayspr, and Homers Brother, there are many of us who shoot weapons with great accuracy results due to knowing how both the loads and the weapon handle to both our and its fullest potential.
With that being said, I would just say that if you are only able to get upto 2" groups at 100yds at the weapons best with that particular load, I would try several other loads and brands. BUT, stay with loads that you know you will be using for hunting the game you are after. Don't use a lighter load just because they shoot great but will not have sufficient energy or penetration to cleanly harvest the game. Match your load to the game.
Other thing, KNOW YOUR SHOOTING CAPABILITIES AND LIMITATIONS!!!!! Just because you saw someone do it on TV with what looked like your weapon, don't think that you can also. Spend the time on the bench and hunt both safe and happy!!!!

2" or less with a factory rifle and cheaper factory ammo is acceptable.

Most deer are shot at less than 200 yards (most less than 100 yards). Deer have vitals about 10" in diameter. If you can make a 5" group with your rifle at 100 yards you should be able to reliably take deer out to 200 yards.

Of course, if your rifles can't do better than that, I would be looking to fix or trade the rifle and/or scope. You should be able to get at least get 2" accuracy out of a normal quality mass produced rifle. Experiment with different factory loads to find what your rifle likes.

My rifles shoot more like 1.25" 5 shot groups, and I'm guessing I'm the weak link in the chain.

Now, to add some levity to the math here, let's not forget the primary advantage of a rifle that prints 5" groups at 100 yards. When we miss that 500-yard shot on that trophy elk, it very likely WAS the rifle's fault.

The biggest elk I saw this season embarrassed me. Because the rifle I was using usually turns 1/2" groups at 100 yards, that 200-yard miss was ALL me. I have no excuse. Shameful.

That's the key, if you ask me. Most people can't shoot to the full capability of their rifles. I am a decent shot, but I doubt I'm going to put a 6 inch group at 500 yards.

The longest shot I've made hunting was just over three hundred meters. I doubt I would even bother to take one longer than that - I felt pretty lucky to get a clean kill at 300.