30/30 Vs. .270
12-06-2011, 07:09 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 33
30/30 Vs. .270
I am starting to really get into hunting and I'm hunting several different areas. The main property I hunt on is a 75 acre plot my step-grandparents own. Lots of thick brush, and huge fields. We've pulled some exceptional animals out of there but I'm limited because I only use a .50 Knight and a 12 gauge to hunt. I've used a .243, .270, .30.06, .308 and a .410. I haven't used them enough to decide which I like, my dad uses a .300 Weatherby, which is a freaking cannon. I really like the Marlin 336C. The runner up being a .270. Does anyone here use 30.30s often and know how they compare?
12-06-2011, 07:35 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
12-06-2011, 08:09 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,525
It depends on the area you are hunting. If you are brush hunting, the 30/30 is far more maneuverable, will "get on the shoulder" quicker, is a larger round so doesn't deflect off of branches as much, and has more than enough power to take deer out past 200 yards which is twice the distance that most people will ever shoot. Realistically, 50 yard shots are the most common and therefore rifle functionality, not ballistics, should be the determining factor. Choose a round that fits within your recoil acceptability bracket and select a rifle based on the type of hunting you will be doing. A 270 is a good round, but it will not perform noticeably better than a 30/30 unless you are hunting an open area that allows you to reach out and hit deer at distances greater than 200 yards which is very uncommon despite what you hear from the keyboard hunters on the internet. If you want a 30/30, the Marlin 336c is a FANTASTIC lever action that has been around forever and is very reliable. If you are wanting a 270, any quality manufacturer will provide you with a quality firearm.
12-06-2011, 08:42 AM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: green bay, wi (hunt in peshtigo, wi)
Posts: 59
I somewhat agree with gangly, it definatly depends on your hunting location and what your range is. However at 200 yards the 30-30 has between 7.5 and 9.5 inches of drop with a 100 yard zero depending on the grain of the bullet, which is easily compinsated for. I tend to prefer the much flatter shooting of the two with the .270 that only has 1.5 to 2.5 inch drop at 200 yards and the .270 also hits with more energy at 200 yards at just under 2000 ft-lbs compared to the 30-30 at under 1000 ft-lbs
source: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...allistics.aspx
source: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...allistics.aspx
12-06-2011, 08:58 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
First, no bullet will "plow through" brush.
For me;
.30-30 in a good lever action gun with iron sights makes for a better choice when hunting in tight cover.
The .270 is an ideal whitetail cartridge when using a high powered scope for long range shooting/hunting.
For me;
.30-30 in a good lever action gun with iron sights makes for a better choice when hunting in tight cover.
The .270 is an ideal whitetail cartridge when using a high powered scope for long range shooting/hunting.
12-06-2011, 09:11 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,877
It depends on the area you are hunting. If you are brush hunting, the 30/30 is far more maneuverable, will "get on the shoulder" quicker, is a larger round so doesn't deflect off of branches as much, and has more than enough power to take deer out past 200 yards which is twice the distance that most people will ever shoot. Realistically, 50 yard shots are the most common and therefore rifle functionality, not ballistics, should be the determining factor. Choose a round that fits within your recoil acceptability bracket and select a rifle based on the type of hunting you will be doing. A 270 is a good round, but it will not perform noticeably better than a 30/30 unless you are hunting an open area that allows you to reach out and hit deer at distances greater than 200 yards which is very uncommon despite what you hear from the keyboard hunters on the internet. If you want a 30/30, the Marlin 336c is a FANTASTIC lever action that has been around forever and is very reliable. If you are wanting a 270, any quality manufacturer will provide you with a quality firearm.
Frankly, go place some branches 10ft in front of your 100yrd target and try out your "the larger round doesn't deflect off branches as much" theory. You'll sing a different tune after ACTUALLY firing it, instead of just passing on an old wives tail. Linear momentum (bullet weight times velocity) is what allows a round to penetrate brush. The .270win has 20% more momentum than a .30-30win, and frankly, in my own experience with hunting in the brush, there is NO cartridge out there that does well at penetrating brush. ON THE OTHER HAND, a flatter shooting cartridge will let you shoot through the gaps, so your line of sight to target is actually where your bullet is flying, in which case, the .270win has the advantage. In the last 10yrs, there have been dozens of articles supporting this fact (which is why I went out and tried it with my own rifles). The smaller caliber, faster flying cartridges have a REAL advantage in brush shooting, contrary to the old stories about big slow bullets punching through brush. Better to not hit the brush at all.
Beyond that, you have absolutely no evidence to support that most shots are taken under 50yrds. Maybe this is true in some densely wooded areas of the country, but in my 20yrs experience, I've had more 400yrd opportunities than 40 yarders. In the last week since our season has been open, I've had shots on 3 deer under 50yrds. I've had no less than 7 deer per day within 400yrds (for those of you keeping track, that's 50 opportunities over 50yrds, and 3 under 50yrds).
I'm also not a big believer that a bolt action has a disadvantage in the woods. I have NEVER felt as if I were "slow to shoulder" with any rifle, and frankly, a compact/lightweight sporter .270 can be just as light and short as a levergun. My personal opinion about guys that think they need quick follow up shots should have placed the FIRST shot better. I also, just a few days ago took an unassisted double in woods with visibility under 50yrds with a bolt action .30-06. Took 3 shots before the deer could disappear (2 on the 1st doe, 1 on the 2nd).
Personally, I've used a Marlin 336 in .30-30 out to 250yrds without any arguement in the past. Granted you have to pick the right bullet, and you have to know your trajectory, but it can easily do the job at that range.
If I would have ONE rifle, out of these two, it would be the .270. A sporterwieght .270win can do anything a standard .30-30 levergun can do, and still have the advantage of longer range shooting. The .30-30 levergun, as much as I love them, is at a distinct disadvantage beyond 200-250yrds.
12-06-2011, 09:11 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
Agree about the brush... don't expect any bullet to bust through branches etc...and still humanely kill your deer.
If you like the .30-30 maybe consider the .308, same size etc...with a lil more power/velocity.
If you like the .30-30 maybe consider the .308, same size etc...with a lil more power/velocity.
12-06-2011, 10:09 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,525
Branches and brush are two different things. Obviously a the minor differences in size don't allow either of the bullets to penetrate through branches with any noticable difference in the results of the two, but small twigs yes. Both bullets carry varying amounts of momentum and are thus deflected, or have a resulting change in motion, dependant upon that momentum. Two equal size twigs with identical inertia will affect the two bullets differently. Yes, if you put a branch 10 feet in front of you and 90 feet from the target, neither bullet will likely hit the target. However, if you put the branch 10 feet from the target and 90 feet from you, the bullet with more momentum will be less affected by the inertia of the branch and thats a fact. The resulting trajectory wil differ for both bullets, but more-so for the lighter bullet and therefore the heavier bullet is preferred.
Regardless of what your beliefs are, for close range a "heavier" bullet is better, especially if there is the off chance that your bullet might go through some unexpectied foilage along its path before getting to its target.
On a side note, I would never condone shooting through brush, regardless of the circumstances, but sometimes you are shooting at a moving target and its going to happen unexpectedly. Heavier bullets are the easiest way to minimalize the affect or items in the bullets path at close distances.
Regardless of what your beliefs are, for close range a "heavier" bullet is better, especially if there is the off chance that your bullet might go through some unexpectied foilage along its path before getting to its target.
On a side note, I would never condone shooting through brush, regardless of the circumstances, but sometimes you are shooting at a moving target and its going to happen unexpectedly. Heavier bullets are the easiest way to minimalize the affect or items in the bullets path at close distances.
12-06-2011, 10:28 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,525
Linear momentum (bullet weight times velocity) is what allows a round to penetrate brush.
Incorrect, momentum is mass x velocity, weight is the affect of gravity on mass, but your point is the same.
...NO cartridge out there that does well at penetrating brush.
agreed, none do it well, but all things being equal, heavier is better
ON THE OTHER HAND, a flatter shooting cartridge will let you shoot through the gaps, so your line of sight to target is actually where your bullet is flying, in which case, the .270win has the advantage.
Within 100 yards, the difference in trajectory is MINIMAL. If you are in a stand and shooting through gaps/brush beyond 100 yards free-hand, then good luck with whatever round you chose but it will most likely be a sloppy shot.
Better to not hit the brush at all.
Fully agree!
Beyond that, you have absolutely no evidence to support that most shots are taken under 50yrds. Maybe this is true in some densely wooded areas of the country, but in my 20yrs experience, I've had more 400yrd opportunities than 40 yarders. In the last week since our season has been open, I've had shots on 3 deer under 50yrds. I've had no less than 7 deer per day within 400yrds (for those of you keeping track, that's 50 opportunities over 50yrds, and 3 under 50yrds).
I guess your the average hunter?
I'm also not a big believer that a bolt action has a disadvantage in the woods. I have NEVER felt as if I were "slow to shoulder" with any rifle, and frankly, a compact/lightweight sporter .270 can be just as light and short as a levergun.
Most 30/30's are much shorter than traditional rifles and I was referring to maneuvarability. I never said that the bolt action was at a disadvantage in the woods, I dont feel as though it is. I prefer bolt over lever action almost always. Again, I was speaking in terms of pure maneuverability, primarily brushy wooded areas where long barrels and be cumbersom.
My personal opinion about guys that think they need quick follow up shots should have placed the FIRST shot better.
Agreed. If you don't think your first shot will get the job done, keep your booger hook the bang switch.
Personally, I've used a Marlin 336 in .30-30 out to 250yrds without any arguement in the past. Granted you have to pick the right bullet, and you have to know your trajectory, but it can easily do the job at that range.
Nice shooting, and kudos to you for doing the research required before shooting aimlessly at a deer, most people don't.
If I would have ONE rifle, out of these two, it would be the .270. A sporterwieght .270win can do anything a standard .30-30 levergun can do, and still have the advantage of longer range shooting. The .30-30 levergun, as much as I love them, is at a distinct disadvantage beyond 200-250yrds.
Agreed.
Incorrect, momentum is mass x velocity, weight is the affect of gravity on mass, but your point is the same.
...NO cartridge out there that does well at penetrating brush.
agreed, none do it well, but all things being equal, heavier is better
ON THE OTHER HAND, a flatter shooting cartridge will let you shoot through the gaps, so your line of sight to target is actually where your bullet is flying, in which case, the .270win has the advantage.
Within 100 yards, the difference in trajectory is MINIMAL. If you are in a stand and shooting through gaps/brush beyond 100 yards free-hand, then good luck with whatever round you chose but it will most likely be a sloppy shot.
Better to not hit the brush at all.
Fully agree!
Beyond that, you have absolutely no evidence to support that most shots are taken under 50yrds. Maybe this is true in some densely wooded areas of the country, but in my 20yrs experience, I've had more 400yrd opportunities than 40 yarders. In the last week since our season has been open, I've had shots on 3 deer under 50yrds. I've had no less than 7 deer per day within 400yrds (for those of you keeping track, that's 50 opportunities over 50yrds, and 3 under 50yrds).
I guess your the average hunter?
I'm also not a big believer that a bolt action has a disadvantage in the woods. I have NEVER felt as if I were "slow to shoulder" with any rifle, and frankly, a compact/lightweight sporter .270 can be just as light and short as a levergun.
Most 30/30's are much shorter than traditional rifles and I was referring to maneuvarability. I never said that the bolt action was at a disadvantage in the woods, I dont feel as though it is. I prefer bolt over lever action almost always. Again, I was speaking in terms of pure maneuverability, primarily brushy wooded areas where long barrels and be cumbersom.
My personal opinion about guys that think they need quick follow up shots should have placed the FIRST shot better.
Agreed. If you don't think your first shot will get the job done, keep your booger hook the bang switch.
Personally, I've used a Marlin 336 in .30-30 out to 250yrds without any arguement in the past. Granted you have to pick the right bullet, and you have to know your trajectory, but it can easily do the job at that range.
Nice shooting, and kudos to you for doing the research required before shooting aimlessly at a deer, most people don't.
If I would have ONE rifle, out of these two, it would be the .270. A sporterwieght .270win can do anything a standard .30-30 levergun can do, and still have the advantage of longer range shooting. The .30-30 levergun, as much as I love them, is at a distinct disadvantage beyond 200-250yrds.
Agreed.
