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Old 02-06-2011, 12:39 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by SwampCollie
I have never been even remotely interested in fully auto Class 3 stuff... but silencers and suppressors have always interested me. Being a waterfowl hunter, my hearing already sucks at the ripe old age of 27. It never made sense to me what they were thinking when they outlawed those things way back when.

If my information is correct, when you get a tax stamp for a class 3 weapon, you are basically surrendering your right to probable or reasonable cause for a search of your home are you not? This has always been one of the major hang ups for me on purchasing one. Not that I have anything to hide... I just don't want a no-knock raid on my home during meal time. Anybody know if there is any truth behind this?
Pretty much. I remember when my BIL was a Class III they could come in and inspect his place of business, i.e. his house. I don't know how much notice they would have to give, but my BIL didn't have anything to hide, so it wasn't a big deal to him.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:39 PM
  #22  
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Aside from the states that have or my in the future circumvent the federal laws of interstate commerce it is a simple procedure in getting a suppressor.

Go to a class 3 dealer. Tell the dealer that you would like to purchase a suppressor.
The dealer will have the appropriate paper work for you to fill out and will submit that paperwork for you along with the tax that you must pay. When your paperwork comes back approved the dealer will call you to come get your suppressor.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...ly-acquire-nfa
Q: How can an individual legally acquire NFA firearms?
Basically, there are 2 ways that an individual (who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from receiving or possessing firearms) may legally acquire NFA firearms:

By transfer after approval by ATF of a registered weapon from its lawful owner residing in the same State as the transferee.
By obtaining prior approval from ATF to make NFA firearms.
[27 CFR 479.62-66 and 479.84-86]



Q: What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?
ATF Form 4 (5320.4) must be completed, in duplicate. The transferor first completes the face of the form. The transferee completes the transferee’s certification on the reverse of the form and must have the “Law Enforcement Certification” completed by the chief law enforcement officer.

The transferee is to place, on each copy of the form, a 2-inch by 2-inch photograph of the transferee taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable). The transferee’s address must be a street address, not a post office box. If there is no street address, specific directions to the residence must be included.

If State or local law requires a permit or license to purchase, possess, or receive NFA firearms, a copy of the transferee’s permit or license must accompany the application. A check or money order for $200 ($5 for transfer of “any other weapon”) shall be made payable to ATF by the transferor. All signatures on both copies must be in ink.

Fingerprints also must be submitted on FBI Form FD-258, in duplicate. Fingerprints must be taken by a person qualified to do so, and must be clear and classifiable. If wear or damage to the fingertips do not allow clear prints, and if the prints are taken by a law enforcement official, a statement on his or her official letterhead giving the reason why good prints are unobtainable should accompany the fingerprints.

Forward the completed application and appropriate tax payment to the Bureau of ATF, P.O. Box 73201, Chicago, IL 60673.

Transfer of the NFA firearm may be made only upon approval of the ATF Form 4 by the NFA Branch. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the tax application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Upon approval of the ATF Form 4, the transferor should transfer the firearm as soon as possible, since the firearm is now registered to the transferee.

[26 U.S.C. 5812, 27 CFR 479.84-86]
If my information is correct, when you get a tax stamp for a class 3 weapon, you are basically surrendering your right to probable or reasonable cause for a search of your home are you not? This has always been one of the major hang ups for me on purchasing one. Not that I have anything to hide... I just don't want a no-knock raid on my home during meal time. Anybody know if there is any truth behind this?
Contrary to popular belief you do not give up your 4th amendment rights by owning a suppressor or other NFA item.

Pretty much. I remember when my BIL was a Class III they could come in and inspect his place of business, i.e. his house.
That was his place of business. The BATFE will periodically come to a dealers address and do compliant inspections. We typically get inspected once every 1 to 3 years. All they are doing is making sure that your A&D logs are correct, all guns are accounted for and properly logged in and out, all 4473's are filled out correctly and the A&D logs matches the information on the 4473, etc...

They do not have authority to come to an individuals home with out a warrant.

Last edited by bigbulls; 02-06-2011 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:41 PM
  #23  
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I just searched and searched the US Sepreme Court's website, and not one ruling or case has been handed down on the Montana Firearms Freedom Act or HOUSE BILL NO. 246.

Whatcha want to bet fritz runs.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:44 PM
  #24  
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You do, however, fall in a different situation if you are a dealer in Class III weapons. I never heard my BIL talk about unannounced checks, usually they were pre-arranged and cordial. But that was in the 70's and 80's.

Interesting thing is that where I live, supposedly the head of local law enforcement has to approve purchase (or possesion) of Class III weapons and suppressors. Our police chief has stated in public forums in our community that he wouldn't approve one.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by bigcountryextreme
I just searched and searched the US Sepreme Court's website, and not one ruling or case has been handed down on the Montana Firearms Freedom Act or HOUSE BILL NO. 246.

Whatcha want to bet fritz runs.
Run where! Contrary to your beliefs a Montana resident can still buy a silencer, or a class III firearm that was made in Montana, no questions asked. Now what!
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:51 PM
  #26  
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Interesting thing is that where I live, supposedly the head of local law enforcement has to approve purchase (or possesion) of Class III weapons and suppressors. Our police chief has stated in public forums in our community that he wouldn't approve one.
Easy enough to get around with other acceptable officials that would be willing to sign off. See the last FAQ below.


Q: Is the chief law enforcement officer required to sign the law enforcement certification on ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4?
No, law enforcement officers can be compelled to sign the law enforcement certification under Federal or State law. However, ATF will not approve an application to make or transfer a firearm on ATF Forms 1 or 4 unless the law enforcement certification is completed by an acceptable law enforcement official who has signed the certification in the space indicated on the form. See “What law enforcement officials’ certifications on an application to transfer or make an NFA weapon are acceptable to ATF?” for more information.

Q: If the chief law enforcement official whose jurisdiction includes the proposed transferee’s residence refuses to sign the “law enforcement certification,” will the signature of an official in another jurisdiction be acceptable?
No. But see “What law enforcement officials’ certifications on an application to transfer or make an NFA weapon are acceptable to ATF?” for the list of acceptable chief law enforcement officers.

Q: What law enforcement officials’ certifications on an application to transfer or make an NFA weapon are acceptable to ATF?
As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases.

[27 CFR 479.63 and 479.85]
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:55 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by fritz1
Run where! Contrary to your beliefs a Montana resident can still buy a silencer, or a class III firearm that was made in Montana, no questions asked. Now what!
You said, it made it to the US Sepreme Court. Did you not????

I just showed you ATF's reponse to the law. I just showed you an appeal to the ninth circuit.

I have heard of folks buying silencers and cutting off 12ga barrels for years. It doesn't make it federally legal.

Simple freakin question. Were you or were not lying when yousaid it made to the US Sepreme court?
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:56 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bigbulls
Easy enough to get around with other acceptable officials that would be willing to sign off. See the last FAQ below.
I have been told that the County Sheriff and prosecuting attorney in our county have the same policy. I haven't tested it because I'm not real interested in having class III weapons or suppressors. Funny that the head of the State Police (Texas) can sign off on it. I wonder if they would just defer it back to local law enforcement(?)
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:59 PM
  #29  
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I think that it is funny that I have seen hunting show where the people are hunting in other countries, like Scotland, and they are required to have suppressors on the hunting rifles.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:59 PM
  #30  
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I have been told that the County Sheriff and prosecuting attorney in our county have the same policy.
Yeah, if they are all anti gun idiots your probably screwed but it's worth trying if one would be interested in a NFA item.

I think that it is funny that I have seen hunting show where the people are hunting in other countries, like Scotland, and they are required to have suppressors on the hunting rifles.
Yeah, noise pollution. It takes an act of God to get a gun over there or to be able to actually hunt but once you are able to acquire a firearm buying a suppressor is just like buying bubble gum.

Last edited by bigbulls; 02-06-2011 at 01:02 PM.
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