Judson

It is appairent that one of you can shoot, however I would like to see that off hand stint with the M1 Grand. That is impressive and alot better then I could ever do, why not a National Match M1A? I am not picking on you just curious.
Now to the long range needle blowers. Have you ever looked at your down range energy, I doubt it. Think of the time of flight of your bullet, rumor has it a deer can run 30 miles an hour(I would like to see that) this is 44 fps. You fire and the deer moves you got a missed or wounded deer. The target shooter that was posting a while back, I will bet he can tell you time of flight, drop and remaining energy at any range he shoots and I get the idea he will not take super long shots.
I supose if you smell bad or do not know how to hunt you have to take those 500 yard shots. Either that or it is an ego problem after all we are shooting at a living animal and we want a quick and humain kill not a maby. Hunting is not target shooting. We have a responsibility to the sport of hunting and the game we hunt to be ethical. This super long range stuff is like driving a Lamborgini down the highway at 180 mph, It can be done but it is not tha actions of a reasonably, responsible person!!

stubblejumper

I suppose the most intelligent thing that can be said at this point is that we all hunt in the manner we please( as long as it is within the game laws and is ethical in our own judgement) and not try to tell others how they should hunt.Our hunting conditions vary tremendously as do our shooting skills..Judging others by ones own limitations and making oneself out to be holier than thou are unfortunately human flaws that some people just can' t seem to control so we just have to learn to tolerate them.Good luck to all in their hunting whatever their methods.

Judson

No one out there is trying to be holier then thou, it is just that some of us value a clean kill on a game animal much more then a hit on the fringe, or in the X ring of a paper target. A botched shot is not a hunting storie it is a tale of shame. I have had them as have most of us. It is somthing you live with and it haunts you if you have any compassion for what you hunt. You learn from your failures and make sure it never happen again. If we do not take this attitude, sooner then later one too many tree huggers will see a three legged deer and our hunting will end. Not only this, but next time a deer you shoot at runs off with a hole in its paunch and you can not find it think of the deer. Is the pain and suffering that animal goes through before it dies a day or two later worth it?

FL/GA Hunter

Judson, I believe that is the very definition of ' holier than thou' - to be such and not even realize it. Every person who has disagreed with you on this thread so far has told you exactly how they prepare for these shots, and are not the kind of haphazard long-range shooters you think of. Try to realize that there are people who can pull those shots off, and some of them are talking to you right here.

bigcountry

Most if not all of the people I talk to that practice these " hunting practices" , practice more than I bet 95% of hunters. Instead of looking down so much on these people, I would be more concerned about people who take the running shots, and loses these animals I bet these guys lose alot more than these long range shooters. I see it every year people taking bad shots.

If a person on here says he hasn' t lost game, or put a bad shot on animal, then he is number one: a liar, or two:not done much huntin.

I have did both, and you know what, I learned from it, and am human. Alot of people count on hunting for food. They don' t get into this Ted Nugent spirit of the wild thing. Does it make it wrong? Absolutely not, just a different perspective that is different than others. I am lucky to have the luxery to not be so dependent on game for putting food on the table.

handloader1

The Max. Kill Zone on a deer is 12" ; you subtract + or - 2" for error; your pratical kill zone is 8" , and your Max. Point Blank Range (MPBR) is 4" . Now you set your scope so the bullet does not rise higher than 4" at any time. If it drops more than 4" you should then compensate. It is wise to use a range finder for shots over your MPBR. I have used MPBR, and it has never failed me.

For Elk MPBR is 9" but I go with 7" .

For Antelope MPBR is 3" .

If one takes the time to really really pratice using MPBR, they should have no problem at long range shots.

If you can' t make the long range shot don' t do it, but if you have the confidence in your rifle and your self go for it. Good luck.

James B

I agree with Judson for the most part. I have seen to many people shoot on the shiloutte range where the distance is known. You never know what the wind is doing all the way out to those extreme ranges. There is no way to practice changing winds whirl winds and air currents. There is no way to know if the deer may take a step or even lay down or turn directions. The bullet time in travel allows for to many variables. A poor hit on a target is no loss but we owe more to the game we hunt. One other question I have is why the hell take that kind of a shot? Is taking that deer at any range life or death? If conditions are real good and I know the range and the rifle, I might take a 300 yard shot. However unless a deer is already hit I don,t push the range. No deer is that important to me and I need not prove anything to anyone.

coyoteseeker

MPBR,how many hunters know what that means or understand how to use it? you would be surprised at how many don' t.good post handloader1.

Judson

Good post James and very true. Now for running shots. If the animal is not already hit I totally agree with that other post concerning running game!! Up here we have lots of hunters with the " When in doubt empty the mag" mentality. One of the more popular rifles here is the Rem 7400 and 742. You know , for when you need those quick second and third shots. I am not alone in wishing that semi autos were not allowed in the woods. The problam with that is what get banned next? Also I know several handicaped people who use them due to their limitations but both know how to shoot, aim and shoot once.

stubblejumper

Judson-So if an animal might suddenly run as you fire causing a miss or wound because of travel time for long range high velocity centerfire shots the same could easily happen at normal ranges for muzzleloader,shotgun and archery shots.Wind also has a much greater effect on projectiles from these weapons as well even at much shorter ranges.Would you then suggest that archers ,shotgun and muzzleloader hunters are unethical because they are risking wounding an animal?Perhaps you are in favor of banning those weapons for hunting because of the increased risk of wounding an animal.