30-30 for deer
09-09-2003, 06:57 PM
#111
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 54
RE: 30-30 for deer
Well, I see that everyone wants to bash the 30-30. Out with the old and in with the new, well not for me. I' ll stick with my THURTY-THURTY (30-30) and my .243 . I love the 30-30. You use what suits you, and I' ll use what suits me. The 30-30 will takes down a deer just as effectively as a 30-06, in the right conditions, becuase, I will admit, the 30-30 does have its limitations. No, its not a power-house, that can take down an elephant, but it' ll get the job done. I love my ' ol Winchester 94, it was my first rifle, though it is kinda hard to shoot with, I will never put down the 30-30, becuase iI just love the gun and the cartridge. I have a special " bond" with it, becuase its the first rifle that my dad gave me. I say, that if you know your shots are within 150 yards, and you have good eye-sight, go for the 30-30, or what ever YOU are comfortable with. I hunt with the 30-30 much, and I probably wont this season, becuase I have a Savage 110 in .243 . I can' t use the iron sights to good on that old 94 warhorse, so I have to go with a scope. I just had to put my 2 cents wirth in, because I am a strong advocate of the 30-30, though I' ve neer killed a deer with it. Down in the south, you metion 30-30, and everyone knows what you' re talking about[8D]
09-09-2003, 07:36 PM
#112
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: 30-30 for deer
I quess according to Friz, those of us educated by 40 years of deer hunting and still using a 30-30 Must be real stupid. The deer now are just to modern to be killed with a 30-30. I quess good hunters who have no trouble at all killing deer are out of date now too. Bring on the Laserdeer blasters we can kill and cook them with one ray blast. Or if we had a ray to beam deer back 50 years or so then , us out of date and stupid uneducated hunters could then kill them with a 30-30 again like we used to.
09-10-2003, 07:41 AM
#113
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: 30-30 for deer
In the final analysis it all boils down to this. If you disrupt enough vital organs to cause life supporting function to cease to exisit....how you did it is not important! I also understand that when you factor into the mix things like inexperience, lack of skill, or lack of ethics, you have increased potential for misuse and/or abuse. Because of those reasons there is some validity to the argument to use a more efficient tool to do the job, (in this case....kill a deer). And I do not have an argument with you if you recommend a more modern cartridge to an inexperienced hunter. (You are correct in your assertion it is easier to effect a kill to a longer range with a cartridge like.....a .270 Winchester for instance, than a .30-30.) Where we differ on the argument is when you unequivically say that the .30-30 is NOT sufficient to kill a deer! When used in a responsible manner there is not a deer alive that cannot be killed with a .30-30 under usual field conditions!
Where I have extensively hunted whitetails in Pennsylvania the longest shot I have ever had to take with a rifle was approximately 95 yards. (My longest shot on a whitetail period was on Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland with a Saboted Shotgun Slug....a stepped off 115 yards.) The shot taken at 95 yards happened to be with a .356 Winchester using a 200 Power Point. The deer took two additional steps, fell, and slid back to where it was when hit. The closest deer I have ever shot in Pennsylvania with a rifle was about 1 and a half yards off my muzzle using a .308 Winchester loaded with 170 grain bullet intended for .30-30 velocities but handloaded to approximate .300 Savage velocities. The two I mentioned earlier that some nitwit(s) had previously wounded with a .22 rimfire...one was killed with a .30-06 using a 150 Hornady....and the other with the .308 using one of those previously mentioned handloads. (That deer by the way had both hind quarters ruined/spoiled from infection where it had been shot with the rimfire. The bullet had also nearly cut in half it' s reproductive organ. So how much do you believe that deer suffered!?!) I considered myself fortunate to have sacrificed my permit to end it' s misery.
The point of all the above paragraph is to demonstrate that idiocy lies in the " hands of the user" , not the " tool" ! It was also to show that of the dozens and dozens of whitetail I have harvested each and every one of them was not only within the effective range of the .30-30, but I could have cleanly killed any of them with my short .44 Magnum Marlin. (I have actually killed deer with both the .357 Magnum in a handgun....limited my range to less than 50 yards. And a .44 Magnum handgun....and decided not to exceed 100 yards....but never actually shot beyond about 45 yards.) In every of the above kills a .30-30 would have worked just as well. Does it provide less margin for error than say a .30-06? Yes, it does! But don' t ever think the problem lies within the cartridge. The problem lies SOLELY with the USER!
Before you accuse me of having no experience at shooting game beyond short range. I will tell you this. I have extensive experience with varmints, (groundhogs in particular), to over 400 yards. And I have shot other big game in Germany (the former FRG) and Alaska at ranges beyond those mentioned above on whitetails. Actually to just over 300 yards on Caribou, (which by the way is about what I consider my maximum at unwounded big game). So please....make the distinction with where the problem really is.....the USER! Not the tool! (Ever try to turn a screw with a hammer?)
Where I have extensively hunted whitetails in Pennsylvania the longest shot I have ever had to take with a rifle was approximately 95 yards. (My longest shot on a whitetail period was on Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland with a Saboted Shotgun Slug....a stepped off 115 yards.) The shot taken at 95 yards happened to be with a .356 Winchester using a 200 Power Point. The deer took two additional steps, fell, and slid back to where it was when hit. The closest deer I have ever shot in Pennsylvania with a rifle was about 1 and a half yards off my muzzle using a .308 Winchester loaded with 170 grain bullet intended for .30-30 velocities but handloaded to approximate .300 Savage velocities. The two I mentioned earlier that some nitwit(s) had previously wounded with a .22 rimfire...one was killed with a .30-06 using a 150 Hornady....and the other with the .308 using one of those previously mentioned handloads. (That deer by the way had both hind quarters ruined/spoiled from infection where it had been shot with the rimfire. The bullet had also nearly cut in half it' s reproductive organ. So how much do you believe that deer suffered!?!) I considered myself fortunate to have sacrificed my permit to end it' s misery.
The point of all the above paragraph is to demonstrate that idiocy lies in the " hands of the user" , not the " tool" ! It was also to show that of the dozens and dozens of whitetail I have harvested each and every one of them was not only within the effective range of the .30-30, but I could have cleanly killed any of them with my short .44 Magnum Marlin. (I have actually killed deer with both the .357 Magnum in a handgun....limited my range to less than 50 yards. And a .44 Magnum handgun....and decided not to exceed 100 yards....but never actually shot beyond about 45 yards.) In every of the above kills a .30-30 would have worked just as well. Does it provide less margin for error than say a .30-06? Yes, it does! But don' t ever think the problem lies within the cartridge. The problem lies SOLELY with the USER!
Before you accuse me of having no experience at shooting game beyond short range. I will tell you this. I have extensive experience with varmints, (groundhogs in particular), to over 400 yards. And I have shot other big game in Germany (the former FRG) and Alaska at ranges beyond those mentioned above on whitetails. Actually to just over 300 yards on Caribou, (which by the way is about what I consider my maximum at unwounded big game). So please....make the distinction with where the problem really is.....the USER! Not the tool! (Ever try to turn a screw with a hammer?)
09-10-2003, 02:35 PM
#115
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
RE: 30-30 for deer
You can bet it has wounded every type of game in North America too. The 30-30 is an anemic round that hangs on to exisitence not by its ballistic merits, but simply due to nostalgia and the fact it is chambered in inexpensive rifles. The best place for a 30-30 is leaning in the corner.
A greater bunch of BS i' ve never read.....
Obviously you' ve never hunted with a .30-30
09-10-2003, 02:50 PM
#116
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
RE: 30-30 for deer
friz, you have posted more than 15 times on this particular thread
What is there about you that thinks you' re so superior that you get to have the lions share of the say.......I can hear you once.....but 15 times is mere bullcrap.
What is there about you that thinks you' re so superior that you get to have the lions share of the say.......I can hear you once.....but 15 times is mere bullcrap.
09-10-2003, 04:06 PM
#118
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ellerbe NC USA
Posts: 1,396
RE: 30-30 for deer
I have a Winchest 94 and it has killed 60 deer in my hunting life...lol (forever)! I have a Weatherby 270 mag., and a 30-06 and a few other " good" rifles, but the 30-30 is STILL my favorite for knock down power at less than 150 yds. PLUS it shoots thru brush (if there is a twig or two between you and the deer). TRY THAT with one of the high $$ rifles and you will not get your deer! I killed one of my elk at close range with my 270 mag (at 20 yards)....took three shots (they said 270 mag was a LONG range gun???). If I' d had my 30-30 with the corelok 170 gr hollowpoints...ONE would have been all that was necessary!!
Let' s hear it for 30-30' s!!!!!!!!!!
Let' s hear it for 30-30' s!!!!!!!!!!
09-11-2003, 09:14 AM
#120
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: 30-30 for deer
Hey Frizz,
I' ve got no problem with your 1st Admendment rights. As a matter of fact...I enjoy lively discourse! It is one of the founding principles of this great nation. Now how about allowing that someone else' s " pursuit of happiness" may include hunting deer with a .30-30?
I agree wholeheartedly with you in sharing in your disgust when someone misuses the .30-30 and causes needless suffering of an animal deserving of a humane death! (No...I am not a tree hugging green weenie either.....we grew up butchering farm animals at a number of places during my childhood. Which meant we would eat better in the " near future" .) But I am also disgusted at the site of " hunters" (read slobs) that stand and bang away at running game 400, 500 yds, or even further with whatever rifle they are holding. (And yes I have personally witnessed this on more than one instance......the same FOOL trying to assure me that their 300 Magnum shot " flat as a string" to 500 yards, requiring no hold over!)
So I remain firm in my belief that the .30-30 (and many other similar cartridges) are fine for deer hunting when used RESPONSIBLY)! The cartridge is not the problem......the FOOL behind the stock is the problem!
There are more than enough examples of misuse of any number of cartridges...which only goes to prove you can' t make something foolproof as long as fools remain! So how about we quit beating a " dead horse" (not to mention inanimate objects) and start holding people accountable for their actions? Trust me...there is nothing wrong with the .30-30 in the right hands. We would accomplish much more if we attempted to explain to and educate those new to the sport, rather than cartridge bashing. And as far as all the " know it alls" ...there is little chance we can affect any change in either their thinking...or their behavior!
I' ve got no problem with your 1st Admendment rights. As a matter of fact...I enjoy lively discourse! It is one of the founding principles of this great nation. Now how about allowing that someone else' s " pursuit of happiness" may include hunting deer with a .30-30?
I agree wholeheartedly with you in sharing in your disgust when someone misuses the .30-30 and causes needless suffering of an animal deserving of a humane death! (No...I am not a tree hugging green weenie either.....we grew up butchering farm animals at a number of places during my childhood. Which meant we would eat better in the " near future" .) But I am also disgusted at the site of " hunters" (read slobs) that stand and bang away at running game 400, 500 yds, or even further with whatever rifle they are holding. (And yes I have personally witnessed this on more than one instance......the same FOOL trying to assure me that their 300 Magnum shot " flat as a string" to 500 yards, requiring no hold over!)
So I remain firm in my belief that the .30-30 (and many other similar cartridges) are fine for deer hunting when used RESPONSIBLY)! The cartridge is not the problem......the FOOL behind the stock is the problem!
There are more than enough examples of misuse of any number of cartridges...which only goes to prove you can' t make something foolproof as long as fools remain! So how about we quit beating a " dead horse" (not to mention inanimate objects) and start holding people accountable for their actions? Trust me...there is nothing wrong with the .30-30 in the right hands. We would accomplish much more if we attempted to explain to and educate those new to the sport, rather than cartridge bashing. And as far as all the " know it alls" ...there is little chance we can affect any change in either their thinking...or their behavior!