Oh, I see, I was wondering what you had against the 7mm. I thought it may have been metric bias or something wierd. So to sum it up, you don' t like hard recoil, and don' t need the extra velocity? Thats fair. 30ft-lbs of recoil is not for everyone. Some days I love my RUM target rifle and other hate it. it is nice however only moving my target turrets 6.5MOA hitting at 500yards instead of 12MOA. Thats why I am an equal oportunity gun nut. I love all calibers except 25ACP. I wish they would come out with some more this year.

My beef with the 7mmmags is in performance per recoil, efficiency if you will: When I add significant recoil, I want a significantly better round, either increasing my range greatly, or larger game, the 7mm' s don' t offer that over many standard velocity rounds. WHen I swap from a garden hose to a water cannon, I want to be able to put out fires, not still be limited to watering my lawn. A .30-06 and a 7mm mag are both ~600yrd deer/elk rifles (in the right hands) so why does one have to kick harder to do the same job? Both can do bigger, but for most people, they shouldn' t.

If you want to turn it into a ' tire watering match' , no 7mm mag has anything in the recoil or energy departments on my .416rigby' s nor my .458Lott/win mag, nor can they hunt elephant or cape buffalo. See above comment on water cannons. Also, just because you and I are used to powerhouse loads, that doesn' t mean my fiance is, nor her kid brother, or a lightweight buddy who' s rifle' s at the smithy, or etc. My rifles leave the safe to enter the woods with a great number of people during the year, giving them something that kicks harder than it needs to for what they want to do is unnecessary.

Bottom line on it, and I apologize that I was so windy earlier, if I' m going to increase recoil and decrease my reloading efficiency (brass life specifically), I want at least a noticeable improvement in performance, the 7mm' s don' t offer it. I wouldn' t want to see the 7mm' s gone, I do agree that they are good rounds, they just aren' t as good as I think they should be to generate that kind of recoil, i.e. not very efficient (nothing to do with case design per powder usage here). To each his own, you like them, I don' t, I just figure that this thread could benefit from this opinion.

Of course, since you mentioned it, target shooting doesn' t EVER apply to the same rules as hunting, and I realize that, flat shooting is usually a key for accuracy, but remember also that the title for the longest shot ever made successfully is held by a .45-70<--not a flat shooter. Hold over isn' t a very good arguement as at long ranges, the hold over for any round is great, and those shots shouldn' t be taken by simply knowing ' I just hold 4ft high at 600yrds' those shots should only be taken by someone who knows exactly where their bullet' s going and what 4ft at 600yrds really looks like, which can be learned about any round, not just a flatter shooting one...i.e., the .45-70 record.

BTW, I agree with you whole heartedly about the .25Anemic Cartridge Puker

Sorry, Nomercy rules of thermodynamics and physics can' t be broken here. Just the way it is. Just the way you replied didn' t make sense first time. Recoil doesn' t bother alot of people on here. If you want efficiency, go with the 7mm-08. My favorite.

Took the words out of my mouth bigcountry. I have a 7mm/08 and a 7RUM for both such worlds.

Thanks for all the info. I believe I will get the stw.

Oh, yeah, I don' t know if I ever did say, that given the choice of ONLY those two, I' d get the STW, it' s the best 7mm available (although I haven' t used the WSM/SAUM' s). Hate it when I forget to answer the thread while answering the thread[:' (][X(].

Tried to order the stw in a sendero and they told my dealer they were discontinued.Does anyone know of a dealer that may have one still in stock? Thanks

Ironically, .270s and 7MMs of the same case capacity are nearly identical in their performance on game. They are so close that there is no practical difference, yet we all have our opinions on which is best. If you like the STW, go for it. Is has far more power and far more capability that 99% of the hunters out there could ever use.