My beef with the 7mmmags is in performance per recoil, efficiency if you will: When I add significant recoil, I want a significantly better round, either increasing my range greatly, or larger game, the 7mm' s don' t offer that over many standard velocity rounds. WHen I swap from a garden hose to a water cannon, I want to be able to put out fires, not still be limited to watering my lawn. A .30-06 and a 7mm mag are both ~600yrd deer/elk rifles (in the right hands) so why does one have to kick harder to do the same job? Both can do bigger, but for most people, they shouldn' t.

If you want to turn it into a ' tire watering match' , no 7mm mag has anything in the recoil or energy departments on my .416rigby' s nor my .458Lott/win mag, nor can they hunt elephant or cape buffalo. See above comment on water cannons. Also, just because you and I are used to powerhouse loads, that doesn' t mean my fiance is, nor her kid brother, or a lightweight buddy who' s rifle' s at the smithy, or etc. My rifles leave the safe to enter the woods with a great number of people during the year, giving them something that kicks harder than it needs to for what they want to do is unnecessary.

Bottom line on it, and I apologize that I was so windy earlier, if I' m going to increase recoil and decrease my reloading efficiency (brass life specifically), I want at least a noticeable improvement in performance, the 7mm' s don' t offer it. I wouldn' t want to see the 7mm' s gone, I do agree that they are good rounds, they just aren' t as good as I think they should be to generate that kind of recoil, i.e. not very efficient (nothing to do with case design per powder usage here). To each his own, you like them, I don' t, I just figure that this thread could benefit from this opinion.

Of course, since you mentioned it, target shooting doesn' t EVER apply to the same rules as hunting, and I realize that, flat shooting is usually a key for accuracy, but remember also that the title for the longest shot ever made successfully is held by a .45-70<--not a flat shooter. Hold over isn' t a very good arguement as at long ranges, the hold over for any round is great, and those shots shouldn' t be taken by simply knowing ' I just hold 4ft high at 600yrds' those shots should only be taken by someone who knows exactly where their bullet' s going and what 4ft at 600yrds really looks like, which can be learned about any round, not just a flatter shooting one...i.e., the .45-70 record.

BTW, I agree with you whole heartedly about the .25Anemic Cartridge Puker