GD714: I'm afraid the focus of my research has been on mainstream police favorite brands and makes. I have no direct or 2nd hand experience with the baby eagles. Sorry. It better be pretty good for the $500 price tag. Because they have polygonal rifling you cannot use lead bullets. You must use the jacketed type (no big deal). Make sure it's smooth and you can operate all of the controls without compromising your grip on the gun. Good luck.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/old/babyeagle.html

MARK IN NE: Both the Sigs and H+K's are very reliable and an owner of either will probably mention them as one of their favorites. With Taurus, however, I have ahd a different experience. I wanted a large frame, high-capacity, 9mm (back when I didn't know any better). I liked the Berreta 92FS, but saw the Taurus PT92, which looks very similar, and bought it since it was $100 cheaper. Bad move. The trigger was very squishy, the adjustable sights were garbage, and it was very sensitive to magazine problems. Even the one that came with it from the factory would cause frequent jams.
The safety configuration also was not a good arrangement for defense under pressure. The thumb operated safety lever has three positions: up=on-safe, center=off-safe (fire), and the momentary down position is a decocker. I found that with the safety on(up), when I went to push it down to the fire position, I tended to go too far. It wouldn’t actually decock the pistol, but when the trigger was pulled, the firing pin block from the decocker was in place preventing the gun from firing. When faced with an intruder, this would be bad. "Click" is NOT the sound you want to hear.
http://www.taurususa.com/pt99.html

I would have to recommend against this taurus semi-auto model, but I do like their revolvers. If you like the look of it, put out the cash for a berreta. Both Taurus and berreta make the same gun in 40 cal.

RAZORHUNTER: If the home defense scenario will be a strong factor, you may want to consider a handgun that sports a utility rail for mounting a high-intensity flashlight. Several makers include these on their guns. H+K and Glock are two that come to mind. The gun-mounted flashlights are expensive. If you don't care to invest in one of these, at least keep a bright, focused hand-held flashlight where you keep your gun. This can help you identify an intruder, and keep you from shooting a member of your family accidentally. Being able to determine if the person is armed is also of great value. It may keep you from having to shoot an intruder and simplify the legalities after the fact.

Also, I highly recommend tritium night sights on any home-defense gun. Although they do NOT help identify your target, they WILL give a positive fix on exactly where your gun is pointed. This may enable you to take a precise head-shot in the dark if, God forbid, you are ever presented with a hostage situation where the police have not arrived yet and the intruder gives you no choice. Better to have the ability and the tools than to leave the decision to him.

The .40 and .45 calibers are very proven man-stoppers. Hard to go wrong with either one. If you do decide to go with a single action cocked-and-locked 1911 style .45 pistol, buy a newer one. Some of the older ones you find at gun shows do feed hollowpoints very well. They can be gunsmithed to work adequately, but for the same money or less you could have a new one. Kimber, Springfield, and Colt($) are good choices in this catagory. Even thought this style of action has about the best trigger pull you're going to find, I'm not really big fan of keeping my gun's main-spring (for the hammer) under tension the entire time the gun in service ready to use. If you have the same concern, but still like this style, you can just load up the magazine and leave the chamber empty. Simply cycle the slide before firing, and keep your finger off the trigger. They have about a 3 to 5 pound pull, which is pretty light. For home defense this might work OK, but to carry, I would keep one in the chamber no matter which action or brand I chose.

Keep 'em all in the Bull.

Edited by - bulzeye on 01/28/2002 16:36:26

Greets,
Bullzeye, I am curious, you suggested the 155gr JHP for a 9mm. I have used HOT handloads of this variety in euthanizing animals ( specifically in the kill shot for a deer that I am embarrased to admit I didnt hit right the first time ) and was sorely disapointed with the effectiveness. Why do tyou not suggest a round such as federals 147gr hydrashok bullet for that cal? ( Havent had to use it yet but that is what I currently carry in mine, so if it aint a good round I need to know ) I honestly would like to step up the cal of gun, but $$ prevent that for now.
Razor, as for a new gun for your collection; if you want accuracy, out of the box so to speak, my VERY limited experience in autos says a glock in 9mm. I have fired autos in .45 9mm .40 and 10mm and the glock 9mm I shot was absolutely the most accurate handgun I have ever fired. ( beat my dads .22lr/mag revolver hands down and it was a pretty good gun I thought )
As for collecting, GREAT! I too am a collector of sorts, though most of my guns are low cost or second hand guns. Love them all! ( Even a .22 revolver I have that isnt safe to shoot, keep it locked up cause it was my grandads and I cant bear to part with it, gunsmith ssays it isnt worth fixing )

Just my uneducated opinion!
Terry

ADUI13:
The weight I suggested for the 9mm was 115g, not 155g. I'm pretty sure this was just a type-o, I think I know what you meant.

The thing about 9mm is that they are very picky about bullet weight with regard to terminal performance. I think the main reason for this is the shape of the bullet's nose (9mm "parabellum&quot. The 9mm is just not wide enough to hit really effectively, so since the "heavy and slow" approach doesn't apply, you are left with "light and fast". Of course, to make bullets go faster, you need to either decrease the weight of the bullet or increase the powder charge behind it. With the 9mm, it's advisable to do both.

This is the same principle that makes the .357 magnum 110g load work so well. This round developed quite a reputation for great knock-down power. Police who have witnessed the effects of it describe the victim as "dropping as if they had been hit by lightning".

I kept the 147g Federal Hydra-shoks in my nine for several years until I found out there was something better. The Hydra-shok is a great design. I love it in my .45 Glock, but there are better weights for a 9mm. You can use the 147g, but be prepared for a follow-up shot or two.

For the best results, use the 115g "Plus-P-Plus" from CORBON. Masaad Ayoob has done extensive testing on it, including slaughter-house tests where they actually kill pigs with head shots and analyze the results. The down side of the "Plus-P-Plus" hot load is that it can void a factory warranty. "Plus-P" might be better for you. See what you can find. Ultimatly there are calibers that do the job better than a 9mm, but for now, there is better ammo.

I don't know what kind of gun you have, but the hotter loads can be dangerous in older guns, and guns with aluminum frames might exhibit excessive wear over time.


Keep 'em all in the Bull.

Edited by - bulzeye on 01/29/2002 12:17:29

By the way guys, if long range shots (for a handgun) are your interest, then I would stay away from the 9mm. They tend to destabilize at shorter ranges than other calibers will.

Keep 'em all in the Bull.

Bulzeye: "I found that with the safety on(up), when I went to push it down to the fire position, I tended to go too far. It wouldn’t actually decock the pistol, but when the trigger was pulled, the firing pin block from the decocker was in place preventing the gun from firing. When faced with an intruder, this would be bad. "Click" is NOT the sound you want to hear."

I will take your word for it, as I was not aware of this problem; my experience with the PT92/99 series was with pre-decocker models before 1991-92, but both of my pistols functioned flawlessly, including use with Ramline mags with 18 round capacity.

(But then most folks would probably carry a DA Auto in hammer-down mode anyway...my 1911A1 upbringing just respects a DA auto with cocked/locked capability, I guess..) :-)

Bulzeye: "I found that with the safety on(up), when I went to push it down to the fire position, I tended to go too far. It wouldn’t actually decock the pistol, but when the trigger was pulled, the firing pin block from the decocker was in place preventing the gun from firing. When faced with an intruder, this would be bad. "Click" is NOT the sound you want to hear."

I will take your word for it, as I was not aware of this problem; my experience with the PT92/99 series was with pre-decocker models before 1991-92, but both of my pistols functioned flawlessly, including use with Ramline mags with 18 round capacity.

(But then most folks would probably carry a DA Auto in hammer-down mode anyway...my 1911A1 upbringing just respects a DA auto with cocked/locked capability, I guess..) :-)

MARK IN NE:
I've only seen two pre-decocker models, and I like that setup better. Neither one of the two I saw was in good enough condition for me to buy. I'm glad you had better luck than I did.

Keep 'em all in the Bull.

Greets,

Bulseye, thanks for the info, My gun is a newer model, EAA Witness Polymer frame. I had a round go off bad in an old llamma I owned besause the feed ramp on that gun left part of the case unsupported, so when I bought this one thats one thing I checked it supports the whole round back to the point where the extractor catches. As for the ++p, my gun warranty said not to shoot +p's in it either, in fact I am not supposed to shoot reloads in it although I do regularly ( cheaper to make my mild 115gr fmj reloads by far than buying factory. And my mild loads wont hurt anything that handles a factory load. ) As for the Hydra Shoks, thats interesting and troubling news.. Fortunately I can get off a couple quick taps if needed, I wont probably buy another with comps, but this one has comp ports on it. Wife loves it cause it wont hurt her wrists when she shoots it.
Anyhow, thanks for the info, and oh.. I just happen to have some corbon hps given to me by a freind, dont know if they are ++P's or not, didnt come in the original box ( he mixed em up, but he doesnt reload so I know they are at least corbons ) maybe I test a couple shots against my hydras to see if I can find a difference, any suggestions for backing media?

Just my uneducated opinion!
Terry

ADUI13:
I don't have the land or cooperative range facilities that would let me try that kind of test myself, so I've had to pay close attention to balistic geletin tests and slaughterhouse results.
I also do not load my own ammo yet, so I won't be any use on that subject.

But I've heard that wet newspaper can give you a decent idea of how violently it will expand. Hope this helps. If you do conduct the tests yourself comparing the 147g to the 115g, I would be very interested in pictures.

Keep 'em all in the Bull.

Greets again,
Ok bullzeye, if and when I get to try it I will take a camera along and get pics for you. I gigured wet newpaper might work well, but I havent ever tried such a test so I figured I would ask. As for the land, I am about 20 minutes from a local "range" of sorts, its just a spot in the woods everyone uses, but its got a good backstop.
I will probably test fire a couple of my 147gr hydrashoks, a couple of the corbon HP's I have, and if I can get the bullets before then I will load some relatively hot stuff with 115gr jhp's.
Dont hold your breath though, cause it'll probably be this summer b'fore I can do any of this. I will let you know here when I do.

Just my uneducated opinion!
Terry