The other thread on AR's got me looking at the Bushmaster webpage and they now make bolt action rifles.

When did that start?

They say they have a sub-MOA guarantee out to 600 yards...

http://www.bushmaster.com/bcs/index.asp

I haven't seen them in the stores yet, but I'm gonna start looking. I would like to know what kind of pricing they have. As much as I like their AR's, I sure wouldn't be afraid to spend some dough on one of their bolts!

If you click on the links near the rifles, it gives specs and prices. They were around $2,400 and $3,000 for the twoI saw.

I just don't see how they can garantee sub moa at 600 yards. Seems like that would be impossible. I've never gone to sniper training but I'd assume that not even the average highly skilled can do 1 moa at 600 yards let alone sub moa. Just doesn't seem reasonable.

Tom

1 minute of angle at 100 yards is approximately 1.04". At 600 yards, 1 moa is approximately a 6" group which is very possible with good equipment in the right hands.

6" at 600 yards is some amazing shooting. Given the need to judge the wind etc.... Seems like they would just garantee it at 100 yards. Seems like a marketing ploy.

Tom

Yeh, I would just like to re-iterate that they don't mean is will shoot sub one inch groups at 600 yards, MOA at 600 yards would be 6 inches. So they are saying that the gun will shoot better than 6 inch groups at 600 yards. I think a lot of that is going to depend on the load you are using though.

I think the reason they don't just rate it at 100 yards is because you could easily have a gun that will sub MOA at 100 yards but not group very well at 600 yards. Same thing can happen with a rimfire, it will shoot ragged holes at 25 and 50 yards but stretch it out to 100 yards and it might only shoot 3 inch groups with the ammo you are using. I have seen it happen many times.

Muzzle loaders and slug guns are very bad for this. Don't just assume that because you can shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards that the same gun and load will shoot 2 inch groups at 200 yards. My Remington muzzle loader would shoot honest to God 1 inch groups with 300 grn XTP's at 100 yards. I tried it at 150 and I couldn't hold a 8 inch group with three shots consistently. I had to change bullets and work up a new load to get it accurate enough out to and beyond 150 yards.

Always beware of a sub MOA claim, if they don't specify what distance they could mean sub half inch groups at 50 yards in a shooting tunnel with the barrel and action in a shooting vice.

Paul

Considering they're part of the whole buy-up which includes marlin and remington among others, I'm guessing these are proberly Remingon manufactured and BM brnaded. No different than the Remington branded ASR's that BM makes. Either way...

RR,

That is scary good.

I believe that 6" at 600 yards is possible. However to guarantee it! How the heck do they do that?

Seems like it could backfire with a proper lawyer.

Also another question. I've known about the fact that even guns that shoot sub moa at 100 or even 200 can really open up beyond those distances. What would you say is typically the main factor driving that phenomenon? Not enough powder? Mag Primer needed? Different bullet?

Tom

95% of the time, it's the nut behind trigger...........pro/con.