New Modern Cartridge Failures?
02-07-2008, 05:41 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MISSOURI
Posts: 1,157
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
I dont think you will see the .270wsm fail from what I have seen.Around here it is doing very well.Now even remington is making ammo for it and the .300wsm.I think the wssm line is doomed you never here of those mentioned.I think the .223wssm is a great round just no one wants to try it. the rest (.243wssm,.25wssm) just havent got enough change in them for people looking for the hype of winchester SSM craze.I think that my .220 swift is having a hard time staying as a standard cartidge in most factory rifles.I dont understand it either,it is a great round and is as good as it gets in a .22 calibur.
02-07-2008, 06:05 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MB.
Posts: 2,984
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
ORIGINAL: DANTHEHUNTER
I think that my .220 swift is having a hard time staying as a standard cartidge in most factory rifles.I dont understand it either,it is a great round and is as good as it gets in a .22 calibur.
I think that my .220 swift is having a hard time staying as a standard cartidge in most factory rifles.I dont understand it either,it is a great round and is as good as it gets in a .22 calibur.
02-07-2008, 06:08 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
ORIGINAL: salukipv1
It's been said before, but what we're they thinking?
The .25WSSM, which is basically a shorter .25-06, same ballistics. Why not a .25 Souper (ie .25-308) or a .257 WSM?
The .308 has now been necked up/down to almost every caliber and is commercially loaded, so why not a .257-308? Maybe Remington should ressurect its 6mm as a new .257-6mm Rem. Beat everyone else to it! and since they 6mm beats the .243 but isn't popular, maybe this would be the best thing to do.I know the .308 comes in.....243 win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308, 338 Federal, viable gap is the .257 I think, and please don't load a .270-308, though i bet this would be the first one they do, accroding to track records....
The .338 federal? Did we need a .338-308? I would suspect more guys would want a .338-06 though I don't need either of these.
I know guys love the .270 WSM, and it beats the .270 Win by 100-200fps, but .270 is already a great round, I'd rather have seen a .264(6.5mm)WSM released than the .270 WSM, I already have a .270 Win.
It's been said before, but what we're they thinking?
The .25WSSM, which is basically a shorter .25-06, same ballistics. Why not a .25 Souper (ie .25-308) or a .257 WSM?
The .308 has now been necked up/down to almost every caliber and is commercially loaded, so why not a .257-308? Maybe Remington should ressurect its 6mm as a new .257-6mm Rem. Beat everyone else to it! and since they 6mm beats the .243 but isn't popular, maybe this would be the best thing to do.I know the .308 comes in.....243 win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308, 338 Federal, viable gap is the .257 I think, and please don't load a .270-308, though i bet this would be the first one they do, accroding to track records....
The .338 federal? Did we need a .338-308? I would suspect more guys would want a .338-06 though I don't need either of these.
I know guys love the .270 WSM, and it beats the .270 Win by 100-200fps, but .270 is already a great round, I'd rather have seen a .264(6.5mm)WSM released than the .270 WSM, I already have a .270 Win.
Just about everything you suggest has already been done by someone at one time or another.... Usually,any "new" cartridge is necked up, down & sideways as soon as brass is available. Some eventually become factory rounds, like the .22/250 and the .25-'06; Many never do.
02-07-2008, 07:16 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
I dont have a problem with wildcats, its fun to tinker, but I'm getting sick of hearing about 5 new "got to have" calibers a year that dont do anything the others didnt already do.
DM
02-07-2008, 12:25 PM
#15
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: WI
Posts: 338
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
I was paging through the model 70's on guns america a couple weeks ago, and lotta wssm's on there. I never understood the need for all these new cartriges. Plenty of normal cartriges to choose from. I could never see buying a gun in some whacky caliber either. I'm really surprised how these .17 rimfires have taken off. I don't quite see the point, why wouldn't you just have a .223? I guess some guys just like to have lotta guns.....
02-07-2008, 02:01 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
A lot of what has been posted in the this thread about WSMs and what not... with regard to the .26 and .25 calibers was infact tried by Winchester. They were pretty hot on the idea of suping up the .25-06 even more.... however, they found that the WSM case (which is entirely new... not a necked up or down anything.... though I suspect they got the idea from Dakota, who used a .404 Jefferys case and cut it down) was most efficent in the .30 caliber. At .25, it was a barrel burner, and no doubt woefully inaccurate. Winchester, from my understanding, acctually developed the WSSM line from the desire to put a new, super hot .25 on the market... while they were at it... why not a 6mm and a .223?
With regards to calibers, as Eld put so well, just about anything to do with necking up or down exsisting calibers has been done, tried, legitimized or discarded. Any new successful round is going to have to fill a void, or else just be available enough and advertised enough to get folks to bite.
The most successful "new" cartridge that I can think of is the .17 HMR... which is just a necked down .22 mag. The rifles are cheap, the ammo is cheap... its fun to shoot, not loud, no recoil, results are explosive. You can get a heck of a fine rig for $500, and ammo is about $12/50 (price increases... used to be $9).
The hottest sellers on the market right now are varmint guns. I think that if we do see any new calibers anytime soon, it will likely be in the form of "sub-gauge" rimfires (maybe a .19 or hope of hopes a .14), which I just think are cool. No matter what though, they are either going to have to fill a gap in the market (and there aren't many of those) or be affordable enough to be justified as an extravagnacy/novelty by the average consumer.
Most innovations I think we will see in the next few years ago going to be in ammunition. New propellants, more powerful ammunition, more speed. Look at the the Leverevolution type stuff, and Remingtons "power-level" ammo. Wouldn't be suprised if we see some real advances in the ways firearms are produced too... most of it is WAY behind the times. I know someone out there is making a one piece receiver and barrel out of some super super hard/stiff metals. Supposed to be a 3.5" 20 gauge slug gun on the way too, or rumor has it.
My vote is to re-popularize the 24 and 32 gauge shotguns. Lets see a special run of Browning Citoris or BPS shotguns in either one.
With regards to calibers, as Eld put so well, just about anything to do with necking up or down exsisting calibers has been done, tried, legitimized or discarded. Any new successful round is going to have to fill a void, or else just be available enough and advertised enough to get folks to bite.
The most successful "new" cartridge that I can think of is the .17 HMR... which is just a necked down .22 mag. The rifles are cheap, the ammo is cheap... its fun to shoot, not loud, no recoil, results are explosive. You can get a heck of a fine rig for $500, and ammo is about $12/50 (price increases... used to be $9).
The hottest sellers on the market right now are varmint guns. I think that if we do see any new calibers anytime soon, it will likely be in the form of "sub-gauge" rimfires (maybe a .19 or hope of hopes a .14), which I just think are cool. No matter what though, they are either going to have to fill a gap in the market (and there aren't many of those) or be affordable enough to be justified as an extravagnacy/novelty by the average consumer.
Most innovations I think we will see in the next few years ago going to be in ammunition. New propellants, more powerful ammunition, more speed. Look at the the Leverevolution type stuff, and Remingtons "power-level" ammo. Wouldn't be suprised if we see some real advances in the ways firearms are produced too... most of it is WAY behind the times. I know someone out there is making a one piece receiver and barrel out of some super super hard/stiff metals. Supposed to be a 3.5" 20 gauge slug gun on the way too, or rumor has it.
My vote is to re-popularize the 24 and 32 gauge shotguns. Lets see a special run of Browning Citoris or BPS shotguns in either one.
02-08-2008, 08:15 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
Most innovations I think we will see in the next few years ago going to be in ammunition. New propellants, more powerful ammunition, more speed. Look at the the Leverevolution type stuff, and Remingtons "power-level" ammo. Wouldn't be suprised if we see some real advances in the ways firearms are produced too... most of it is WAY behind the times. I know someone out there is making a one piece receiver and barrel out of some super super hard/stiff metals. Supposed to be a 3.5" 20 gauge slug gun on the way too, or rumor has it.
Most innovations I think we will see in the next few years ago going to be in ammunition. New propellants, more powerful ammunition, more speed. Look at the the Leverevolution type stuff, and Remingtons "power-level" ammo. Wouldn't be suprised if we see some real advances in the ways firearms are produced too... most of it is WAY behind the times. I know someone out there is making a one piece receiver and barrel out of some super super hard/stiff metals. Supposed to be a 3.5" 20 gauge slug gun on the way too, or rumor has it.
02-08-2008, 10:59 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: New Modern Cartridge Failures?
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
These are the kinds of progress I'm looking for, as opposed to some "new" version of the .300 Savage loaded to performance levels you'll NEVER get from a Model 99....
These are the kinds of progress I'm looking for, as opposed to some "new" version of the .300 Savage loaded to performance levels you'll NEVER get from a Model 99....
Getting more performance out of a rifle you already own will always be a big hit. Heck, thats how Weatherby came to be. All Roy started off doing was rechambering customers rifles in exisiting calibers to his own Weatherby Magnum varieties and sending them back. Look where it took him! A fairly inexpensive upgrade will always be more popular than a totally new cartridge that requires a completely new rifle.
How many of us broke the 30/30s back out when Leverevolution came out? It completely boosted the performance capabilities of a ubiquitous and inexpensive firearm into a totally competent 200 yard deer rifle, and in places it is still fairly hard to come by in 30/30 for just that reason!
