Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Guns
 The bad rap on Ballistic Tips >

The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

Guns Like firearms themselves, there's a wide variety of opinions on what's the best gun.

The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

Old 12-02-2007, 10:04 AM
  #21  
Nontypical Buck
 
SwampCollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips


ORIGINAL: RugerMike

That's not what I said. If the short mag BT bullets are shot in moderate distances (@75yds or less) and don't impact something like bone and hit only skin area(no ribs) They will expand very little if at all and will only leave small holes on both sides of a deer. There will also be very little trauma on the lungs as well. This is not myth as some may thing? If they had hit a shoulder it would have been a different story on the expansion and trauma sustained. But everyone has a title to their own opinion.

So if a lightly jacketed, plastic cone tipped hollow point will only "expand very little", what do you submit would do the job any better?

I'm a follower of the "any bullet in the right place is better than a good one in a bad place." A deer that takes a 30 caliber bullet in the air tanks is going to be in just as much trouble as one that plays chicken with a semi on I-84. Although, the latter will no doubt produce a more impressive blood trail, and I suspect that it will be short, depending on if the trucker hit the brakes or not.

I digress. Most of the rifle wounds you see, when investigating the hide, look as through they did not expand at all. Hide stretches... its what's inside that counts.

The biggest deer I have ever killed sported such a wound. Taken with 150gr Power Points from a 30-06 at 105 yards. Entrance and exit holes looked identical inside. On the skinning pole, you could have put a fair sized grapefruit through the offside shoulder. Appearances can be deceiving you know.
SwampCollie is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 10:08 AM
  #22  
Giant Nontypical
 
eldeguello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

ORIGINAL: stubblejumper

If you are both using short mags that is the reason for no expansion. Remember you get what you ask for. A flat shooting bullet that is fast, oh wait I want expansion too!!! LOL
You can't be insinuating that the bullets were going too fast to expand?Does anyone still believe that myth?
For anyone that thinks a bullet is travelling TOO FAST TO EXPAND, I have a bridge for sale located in NY state-cheap!!
eldeguello is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 10:20 AM
  #23  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 809
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

What do you call a person that willkeep on doing the same thing over, and over, and over and expect different results? Not me that is for sure! You win, next game please?
RugerMike is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 10:21 AM
  #24  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

If the short mag BT bullets are shot in moderate distances (@75yds or less) and don't impact something like bone and hit only skin area(no ribs) They will expand very little if at all and will only leave small holes on both sides of a deer. There will also be very little trauma on the lungs as well.
He specifically mentioned the 150gr .308" ballistic tip.This bullet expands quite reliable on soft tissue even at .308 win velocities,so driving it at wsm velocities will result in it expanding even more,not less.Driving it too slow can result in inadequate expansion,but the only problem with driving it too fast,is that it may over expand and not hold together resulting in reduced penetration.I use lung shots myself so in many cases,no bone was struck,yet I have never had an issue with a ballistic tip not expanding.

If the short mag BT bullets are shot in moderate distances (@75yds or less)
The fact that you even mention 75 yards or less gives the impression that you think that the bullet did not expand was because it still had too much velocity because of the close range.Why else would you even bother to mention the 75 yards or less?There is a myth that some people still believe that a bullet won't expand if driven too fast.This is the myth to which I refer.The fact that you specifically mention the short mag BT puzzles me.The cartridge that a bullet is driven out of is irrelevent,it is the impact speed that determines bullet expansion,not the cartridge that it is driven from.
stubblejumper is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 10:28 AM
  #25  
DM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

I like abit "tougher" bullet than the BT's are, but used within the speed they were designed for, they workquite well...

I took 3 big bull caribou one day with BT's and here's one of them...



He looks dead to me...lol

Anyway, i'm always amazed when i see someone posting that a bullet went so "fast", it didn't expand... How do people come up with things like that???

DM
DM is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:14 PM
  #26  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

ORIGINAL: The Rifleman

JMO

But an educated person a long time ago set me down and told me that Ballistic Tip Bullets are not intended for hunting.

Their main design was to be used for target practice only.

Most educated people would agree with me on this one.

The lead on the tip of the bullet, usually burns off while it travels through the air after it leaves the barrel.

Ballistic Tip Bullets should NOT be used for hunting purposes.
Wow, that is some of the most uninformed advice I have ever heard. Where did this person get his education and what was it in, English Lit.? And who are the educated people agreeing with him? They certainly were not educated in 20th century fire arms.

Nosler came up with the concept of polymer tipped bullets in order to give the hollow point hunting bullets a better B.C. And it really only comes into play at longer distances. They are also believed to promote quicker or more reliable expansion on varmint and controlled expansion large game bullets. From what I can tell no one has actually proven that they work any better than the same bullet without the tip.

You can't judge the performance of a bullet simply by the type of tip it has. It is in the bullet design, like how the bullet is constructed. The amount and type of jacket it has, what the core is like and other factors. Some controlled expansion large game bullet have plastic tips on them as do some rapid expansion varmint bullets. Doesn't really have anything to do with the tip, but rather how the bullet was designed to expand. You have to pick the proper bullet for the job. Just because it has a plastic tip doesn't mean it will explode violently when it hits the target.

The thought of a lead or plastic tip burning off the bullet in flight is relatively laughable to me. If that were the case it wouldn't make it out of the barrel and there would be no sense of even having them.

My opinions anyway.

Paul
Paul L Mohr is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:30 PM
  #27  
Spike
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 24
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

Well I use a 100 gr bt with my 25-06 and have shot whitetails at less then 100 yrds and out to 250 yrds with the same results perfect transfer of energy an entry wound and no exit, and a dead critter .
royalcoke23 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:03 PM
  #28  
Typical Buck
 
Pioneer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 692
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

I don't care for the ballistic tips either as they can and do go to pieces prematurely on bone at under 100yards.Seen several large bodied deer with a busted shoulder resulting in little more than a surface wound.My buddy even quit using them on antelope 100gr/25-06 due to excessive meat damage.Exit wounds in the ribs you could stick your arm in.The earlier Nosler solid base was even worse.If you collect fur don't use these on yotes either.Bullet expansion relies on 3 things ,velocity,what is struck and jacket thickness[bullet integrity]....................The reason people like them initially is that they are scary accurate.On the other hand I have 2 early Barnes x 130gr .270 one that could be reloaded and fired again and another picture perfect expansion recovered from a 6x7 mulie buck.This is a case of too hard.............Harold If they are working for you that's fine but I now use Hornady interlocks for everything antelope -grizzly with no failures todate.20+years
Pioneer2 is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:33 PM
  #29  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

Bullet expansion relies on 3 things ,velocity,what is struck and jacket thickness[bullet integrity].
Not quite.Bullet expansion relies on velocity,impact media(what is struck) but it also varies greatly with bullet construction,which consists of far more than jacket thickness.A hollow point will generally expand much more rapidly than a lead tipped bullet.A ballistic tip expands quicker because the poly tip acts as a wedge driving the nose open.Jacket hardness matters just as much as jacket thickness.The hardness of the core is also a factor in some cases,but not all since some bullets have tungsten cores that do not expand at all.The monometal bullets such as the tsx have no jackets at all,so jacket thickness and hardness is obviously not a factor.

If they are working for you that's fine but I now use Hornady interlocks for everything antelope -grizzly with no failures todate.20+years
I have personally used ballistic tips for over 20 years for pronghorn,bighorn,whitetail,mule deer,elk and moose with no failures to date.And over that 20+ years,there have been several changes made to the ballistic tip line of bullets making the newer versions much tougher than the earlier versions.Judging the recent versions based on 20 year old versions is like shopping for a new vehicle using a 20 year old buying guide.
stubblejumper is offline  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:05 PM
  #30  
Boone & Crockett
 
James B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
Default RE: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips

Genreally speaking the heavier bullets per caliber are made for big game and the lighter ones for varmints or real thin skinned game. The 120 grain 7MM would be a Varmint bullet where the 140 and up are intended for big game. The 150 grain 30 caliber would be fine in the 308, 300 Savage speed range where the 180 in the 30 caliber would be a better choice in the 300 Mags. Of course range and remaing velocity would play a factor. The 165 Grain 30 caliber might be about perfect for deer hunting in all the 30 calibers.
James B is offline  

Quick Reply: The bad rap on Ballistic Tips


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.